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  • #31
    Originally posted by ryanjones2150 View Post
    He is clearly spying on me, but what he doesn’t know is what he saw is merely the diversion. The real science is how we’re welding unobtanium to nonexistent using nunnuvfranzesbusinesium.

    You dang norsemen, always so jolly. Probably because you guys aren’t very smart....

    ....or pretty.
    LOL.

    Us Norsemen I do believe are quite jolly due to the fact that our good looks are quite distinguishable. The beards as well are stellar and others pale in comparison.

    The vikings built their ships out of unobtanium and acquired it using special pickaxes called "shyhooks" If that doesen't require an aptitude beyond most, I don't know what does.

    But it's true, sometimes we are kind of dumb, but most times, we're not.
    if there's a welder, there's a way

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    • #32
      Originally posted by ryanjones2150 View Post
      He is clearly spying on me, but what he doesn’t know is what he saw is merely the diversion. The real science is how we’re welding unobtanium to nonexistent using nunnuvfranzesbusinesium.

      You dang norsemen, always so jolly. Probably because you guys aren’t very smart....

      ....or pretty.
      Spying my kazoo. The Department sends me 3 emails a day asking if what you're doing is safe.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Olivero View Post

        LOL.

        Us Norsemen I do believe are quite jolly due to the fact that our good looks are quite distinguishable. The beards as well are stellar and others pale in comparison.

        The vikings built their ships out of unobtanium and acquired it using special pickaxes called "shyhooks" If that doesen't require an aptitude beyond most, I don't know what does.

        But it's true, sometimes we are kind of dumb, but most times, we're not.
        Invented Port and Starboard too and understood the difference.

        We ain't gonna talk about the L and R painted on Pumperjumper's boots and gloves.

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        • #34
          LOL.

          We can keep this going forever,
          if there's a welder, there's a way

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          • #35
            At least till Bob falls off his ladder and gets wet.

            It's a skill set that makes the day go faster.

            Comment


            • #36
              All seriousness aside, every metal (or alloy) has its own, sometimes unique, properties - I spent the last 35 years of my "indentured servitude" doing instrumentation in two different rare metals plants, the first 10 in a Titanium only plant and the last 25 in one that produced just about anything that ended in "ium" (EXCEPT "unobtanium" - it's well-named :=)

              Some examples of the second plant's output - Titanium, Zirconium, Niobium (formerly known as Columbium), Tantalum, Hafnium, possibly 1 or 2 I missed...

              Before I started either job I had already found out how NOT to cut SS - tried with my O/A set, things got red, kinda started to "boil", but never actually CUT - IIRC, I ended up just heating the 1" rod til it started to bubble, then PULLED it apart and spent a LOOOONG time grinding the end :=(

              Best source of Titanium used to be rutile sand; best rutile sand USED to come from Australia, probably not any more. Rutile is another name for the compound TiO2. Ordinary beach sand from just about ANYWHERE contains varying amounts of ALL the metals I listed earlier - sorting them out is an extremely complex operation that includes Chlorination (mixing the sand with Chlorine at around 1000 degrees C), then "Separation", which involves typically a 6 story building with a series of "cracking towers", where the various metal ions are routed different directions based on specific gravity, chemical affinity, electrical polarity, or a combination of those. My last project before retiring was the complete computerization of that process; just the UPS room for the project was about 24' x 30', and could sustain the entire 6 story building for at least 12 hours. Backing THAT up were a pair of 100 KW diesel generators.

              Ti, besides making SS look like "instant rust", isn't very conductive to electricity; but it's REALLY not conductive to HEAT - about the second week I was at the Ti ONLY plant, a co-worker was in the shop heating some scrap Ti rod in a vise (about 1/4" diameter) - When I asked, he said he was making some tent pegs for backpacking. He heated the rod with about an inch clamped in the vise - when it was cherry red under the torch, he grabbed the rod within a couple inches WITH HIS BARE HAND, and bent it about 120 degrees. I about crapped my pants, he started laughing. I had taken the "newbie" bait, then he explained about the "un-conductiveness" thang...

              He then explained that, when that plant was first getting started somebody had thought a Titanium frying pan might be a good product - they used a cast iron pan to make a mold, cast one out of Ti, and when they tried to use it they had a definite "cooked/raw/cooked" pattern (followed the heating coil pattern) with eggs, pancakes, etc...

              Atmosphere - in at least the intermediate stages of making actual METAL, there's a REASON these "iums" are called REACTIVE - after the sand is chlorinated/separated/reduced (yet ANOTHER oxygen-free, large vessel, 1000 degree C process) it then has to be "passivated" by SLOWLY introducing a tiny flow of O2 into the (typically 6' diameter, 30' long) retort it rests in (still not really a "metal" as we would think of it) - if that "passivation" happens too fast, the entire "cake" of Ti (called "sponge" at that point) will ignite, making its own oxygen, and melt its way thru 1" of stainless steel retort wall, and continuing on thru whatever concrete it's sitting on.

              Even a so-called "metal fire extinguisher" won't stop that, it just has to burn itself out. Needless to say, we paid VERY close attention to how that passivation station was working...

              At that plant, the "sponge cakes" came out about a foot thick x 4 feet wide by 25-30 feet long, and after passivation they were removed from the retort and ran thru a "rock crusher" (at that time, it really WAS a rock crusher) - this turned the "cake" into what looked like 1" minus gravel, but not yet very pure - the "gravel" then got an acid wash in a similar sized leach tank, then rinsed a couple times and dried...

              Drying was ANOTHER "fire prone" system, mainly because production people couldn't/wouldn't listen to instrumentation about NOT exceeding our temperature recommendations and kept trying to "speed up" the process - we finally gave up trying to explain/threaten the bozos, and completely revamped the fluid bed dryers with IR detectors - when they detected a temp that was too high, the first fluid bed closed its input and went to high speed feed, the second fluid bed REVERSED at high speed, and the contents of BOTH got dumped onto an added 8" thick steel plate.

              When I left for the job in the other plant, they stil hadn't managed to "build a better idiot"...

              Some properties of the various "iums" -

              Just a 2% alloying of Ti in mild steel makes the resulting exhaust tubing last roughly 5 TIMES as long.
              Pure Ti is mechanically pretty soft, it's the different alloys that toughens it up. I made a rolling head pry bar from scrap CP Ti, real purty but too soft for much.
              Zirc and Hafnium are kind of "polar opposites" - Zirc conducts radiation like a window, but only 1/4" of Hafnium blocks radiation as well as a FOOT of lead - which is why they make fuel rods out of Zirc, and "throttle plates" out of Hafnium.

              Niobium is the prime ingredient in superconductor wire but typically includes copper, tin, and a couple others nobody would talk about - one process entails starting with a copper sleeve about the size of the old aluminum welding rod cans you can't get anymore - more Niobium and copper and tin wires get arranged in that can, the end looks kinda like a kid's kaleidoscope when it's ready to swage - the thing starts out about 18 INCHES long and around 2.5" thick,

              Every few passes it gets annealed - I did the control system for the annealing furnace - mechanically, the start of a swaging was just static 'cause the assembly was only a few feet long - when it got too long for the furnace, there were small end doors on the furnace (and later, in the walls of the building) til the wire eventually was small enough to use supply and takeup reels - at NO TIME was the furnace allowed to exceed 225 degrees C, because if the TIN melted before the wire was down to size, it would RUIN the entire batch.

              By the time a run was complete, that foot and a half long "fattie" was over 2 MILES long, and almost invisible to the naked eye - but I saw a photomicrograph of the cut end BEFORE it got heat treated - you could STILL see that "kaleidoscope" just as it was at the beginning, but MUCH tinier.

              I dealt directly with the head engineer on that project; we got to be pretty good friends, and he STILL wouldn't tell me how he did it - he had a VERY tightly controlled area where the final heat treat happened (the wire was NOT superconductive til that happened) - he DID explain that the TIN had to NOT get melted til the final heat or the whole batch was scrap, hence the strict temp max on the anealing oven.

              Only thing I know about Tantalum is it's used in capacitors;

              You wanna brag about your welders - several of our Vacuum Arc Melt furnaces used to run at up to 50,000 amps; and NONE of 'em were allowed to strike off til the vacuum was WAY better than 30 microns (that's Mercury - atmosphere is normally around 760 millimeters of mercury, and a micron is one THOUSANDTH of a millimeter. (Technically, one millionth of a meter)
              Below that level, pressure gets stated in scientific notation around 10 to the minus 6th...

              OK, 'nuff idle chit-chat; back to yer regular friendly head bashing :=)) Steve
              Last edited by BukitCase; 08-08-2019, 01:03 PM.

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              • #37
                Thanks! I Enjoyed reading that while eating the last bowl of chili. It reminded me of use the Ti strips in those set the alarm off packets, and the here, hold this demo. Fond memories.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Franz© View Post
                  At least till Bob falls off his ladder and gets wet.

                  It's a skill set that makes the day go faster.
                  I don't have the ladder job anymore. I am a sander boy now...Bob Click image for larger version

Name:	14937329_278657012529025_4885815479541833689_n.jpg
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ID:	600559
                  Bob Wright

                  Spool Gun conversion. How To Do It. Below.
                  http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...php?albumid=48

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                  • #39
                    "It reminded me of use the Ti strips in those set the alarm off packets, and the here, hold this demo. Fond memories."

                    Yeah Noel, me too; I taught electronic repair of ECM and "long range surveilance" gear during the cold war - every equipment rack had its own thermite pack sitting on top, tied to a common "kill" button by the exits; if an evac was ever necessary, last guy out the door hit the button - saw a demo of 'em once, took just under 30 SECONDS to turn a 6 foot rack of gear into a small glob of slag, and if anybody was dumb enough to put WATER on it, it just went faster and hotter.

                    AFAIK, our mission is STILL active and still classified TS&C, but the 12 racks of gear has probably been replaced (mostly) with an encrypted smartphone :=)) Steve

                    Oh, remember flash cubes/flash bulbs? One of the oldest areas in my last job had large to small(ish) rolling mills, took a small slab of Zirc, rolled it down to under .001" thick, sliced it into less than 1/16" strips - that's what's inside flash cubes. Before I started there, two guys became "crispy critters" when they neglected to use Berillium tools around that stuff. One lived long enough to BEG the nurses to kill him. Some of the workers there were still talking about that when I retired, 25 years after I started and about 30 years after the incident... Steve
                    Last edited by BukitCase; 08-08-2019, 01:48 PM.

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                    • #40
                      BukIt, thanks for that post! Metals technology today, barge building yesterday. Lots to learn!

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        You're welcome; I had to force myself to stop, too many interesting "tidbits" started popping into the old "soft hard drive" and too many "today" projects waiting - BTW, I wonder if "Monu" ever finished his term paper... Steve

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by aametalmaster View Post

                          I don't have the ladder job anymore. I am a sander boy now...Bob [ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"medium","data-attachmentid":600559**[/ATTACH]
                          Poor Bob has been relegated and downsized to piece work in a slave shop.

                          A goFundMe page has been set up to buy Bob a new ladder.
                          Won't you please contribute to Bob's new ladder fund.
                          Bob is hoping for a nonconductive fiberglass ladder, but he will settle for an aluminum ladder if he has to.
                          Your Dollar that won't even buy a cup of coffee will get Bob another rung up toward his goal.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by BukitCase View Post
                            "It reminded me of use the Ti strips in those set the alarm off packets, and the here, hold this demo. Fond memories."

                            Yeah Noel, me too; I taught electronic repair of ECM and "long range surveilance" gear during the cold war - every equipment rack had its own thermite pack sitting on top, tied to a common "kill" button by the exits; if an evac was ever necessary, last guy out the door hit the button - saw a demo of 'em once, took just under 30 SECONDS to turn a 6 foot rack of gear into a small glob of slag, and if anybody was dumb enough to put WATER on it, it just went faster and hotter.

                            AFAIK, our mission is STILL active and still classified TS&C, but the 12 racks of gear has probably been replaced (mostly) with an encrypted smartphone :=)) Steve

                            Oh, remember flash cubes/flash bulbs? One of the oldest areas in my last job had large to small(ish) rolling mills, took a small slab of Zirc, rolled it down to under .001" thick, sliced it into less than 1/16" strips - that's what's inside flash cubes. Before I started there, two guys became "crispy critters" when they neglected to use Berillium tools around that stuff. One lived long enough to BEG the nurses to kill him. Some of the workers there were still talking about that when I retired, 25 years after I started and about 30 years after the incident... Steve

                            That's stuff is gold, solid gold. I could listen to you guys all night long. Pierre Burton stuff. Let's crack another soda pop I want you guys to wet your lips and tell us more. History and knowledge. Pass that stuff around.






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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Noel View Post


                              That's stuff is gold, solid gold. I could listen to you guys all night long. Pierre Burton stuff. Let's crack another soda pop I want you guys to wet your lips and tell us more. History and knowledge. Pass that stuff around.





                              Right on! I’ll second that motion.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by BukitCase View Post
                                Yeah Noel, me too; I taught electronic repair of ECM and "long range surveilance" gear during the cold war - every equipment rack had its own thermite pack sitting on top, tied to a common "kill" button by the exits; if an evac was ever necessary, last guy out the door hit the button - saw a demo of 'em once, took just under 30 SECONDS to turn a 6 foot rack of gear into a small glob of slag, and if anybody was dumb enough to put WATER on it, it just went faster and hotter.
                                My dad was in the Army Air Force during WWII where he ran a RADAR set which back then was top-secret. Same deal, it had a big thermite bomb on it and if ever they were shot down, his job was to ignite the thermite to destroy the radar so the enemy couldn't get it and copy it...

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