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  • Small Tanks of 90/10 Shielding Gas?

    I just purchased a Multimatic 255 because of the pulse MIG capability. Unfortunately I didn't realize it would actually require 90/10 gas, but you know... live and learn. So I started calling around in the Houston area and no one offers tanks less than 300+cu ft of 90/10. Plus, they all only rent those tanks - not to mention that a tank that big would never fit on the little mobile cart for this machine I'm sure.

    Does anyone know how to get a smaller tank of 90/10? All I need is 80-120 cu ft, but I'm super frustrated at not being able to find it.

  • #2
    Let's first verify you need it. What are you welding, and where are you reading that you need 90/10?

    Comment


    • #3
      Here's an old thread that may contain information you can use to compare gasses with. https://forum.millerwelds.com/forum/...50p-xmt-optima

      Comment


      • #4
        The synergic curves are programmed with C10 in mind, according to the manual, thats my guess.




        Just use two 125 ft³ tanks and Y them together and it will get you by.




        Last edited by OscarJr; 07-12-2019, 10:10 AM.
        HTP Invertig221 D.V. Water-cooled
        HTP Pro Pulse 300 MIG
        HTP Pro Pulse 200 MIG x2
        HTP Pro Pulse 220 MTS
        HTP Inverarc 200 TLP water cooled
        HTP Microcut 875SC

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by MAC702 View Post
          Let's first verify you need it. What are you welding, and where are you reading that you need 90/10?
          Answering in reverse. I'm seeing in many places that Pulse MIG requires higher argon content to create the droplets. For example:
          https://forum.millerwelds.com/forum/...mig-mode-steel

          Also, when I turn the 255 to MIG Pulse mode it says to use 90/10 gas.

          I do a lot of various fabrication of things I design in Solidworks and cut out of sheet ranging from 16ga to 1/4". Mostly in the 10ga to 3/8" range. I design the parts to fit together extremely precisely and cut them on laser or plasma, and as I understand it MIG Pulse will allow me to weld the parts together without injecting as much heat into the material.

          I'm primarily concerned about minimizing any potential warpage. But I also understood that in certain instances Pulse would also improve weld quality.

          Generally, I'm not 100% convinced that this process is going to benefit me, but I did make a $4,000 bet that there would be some benefit when I bought this machine. I just didn't know it was going to be so difficult to get the gas!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by OscarJr View Post
            Just use two 125 ft³ tanks and Y them together and it will get you by.
            That's brilliant actually! Just to make sure I'm tracking 100% with your suggestion... That tank on the left is argon in your pic? And you open the C25 all the way, and then just crack the argon open a little to try and get the balance right using a bit of trial and error?

            Also, sorry for such a stupid question... but I'm assuming a Y like this one on Amazon would work? https://amzn.to/2jCPBy7

            Comment


            • #7
              If you do that, probably best to put a check valve inboard of the western Y. I do something similar with argon and helium. I might even have a couple extra check valves you can have.

              I’m in Beaumont, by the way. Have you tried calling Coastal Welding Supply? I don’t generally get 90/10, but I understand they’ll mix whatever you want into whatever size cylinder you need. Sometimes you have to order it and they have a couple of facilities in SETX that make those “custom” mixes.

              How about this weather, huh? Like walking on the sun, only more humid.

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks Ryan, the check valves are a good idea. I think I might have a few laying around as well. ;-) I did not know about Coastal, but it would be worth the drive to me if I could get them to mix me up a special batch!!!I'll give them a call to look into it. Thanks for the suggestion!

                It is ridiculously hot! And it's not even August yet!!! I moved to the Houston area from Dallas, and this humidity is really killing me! I put 10 tons of AC in my shop, and on days like today with both units running continuously the best it can do is about 80-82 degrees inside. But at least it takes the moisture out of the air!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Here are the formulas:

                  If you prefer to know the Argon %:




                  If you prefer to know the CO2 %, the formula is a bit easier (because the CO2 only comes from one tank):





                  Formula notes:
                  • Ar_FlowRate is the flowrate coming from only the argon tank regulator/flowmeter.
                  • C25_FlowRate is the flowrate coming from only the C25 tank regulator/flowmeter.
                  • Total FlowRate is the combined (summed) flowrate as seen at the tank regulators/flowmeters on the Argon and C25 tanks (aka just add them together).

                  Here is an online calculator that I use that uses sliders

                  15-16 CFH AR + 9 CFH C25 work great to give you a ~25 CFH total flow with about 9-10% CO2.




                  Last edited by OscarJr; 07-12-2019, 01:41 PM.
                  HTP Invertig221 D.V. Water-cooled
                  HTP Pro Pulse 300 MIG
                  HTP Pro Pulse 200 MIG x2
                  HTP Pro Pulse 220 MTS
                  HTP Inverarc 200 TLP water cooled
                  HTP Microcut 875SC

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by johnpoz View Post

                    That's brilliant actually! Just to make sure I'm tracking 100% with your suggestion... That tank on the left is argon in your pic? And you open the C25 all the way, and then just crack the argon open a little to try and get the balance right using a bit of trial and error?

                    Also, sorry for such a stupid question... but I'm assuming a Y like this one on Amazon would work? https://amzn.to/2jCPBy7
                    Yea, the left tank is Ar. No trial and error needed here. Little Texan boy did all the homework for you (see post above ▲).

                    You can use that Western valve, and just adapt the fittings you need for your particular lines/hoses. I pieced mine together at my LWS, and it ended up being cheaper than the western fitting #411. I think I paid around $32 for all my fittings. It's basically the same, except the male/female ports were reversed:







                    No check valves, no other items needed, although you can use them if you want to. By the time it exits out of a 10ft+ long MIG whip and the associated lines/inside the machine, it's had 15ft+ to fully mix.

                    Trying out the double-Pulse on my HTP ProPulse 300. MIG like TIG without dialing down the heat. In fact this was the exact opposite. Super hot spray-arc on the mega-pulse! Smoked my cheapie aluminized reflector pad on the back of my guide-hand in one pass flat, LOL.





                    HTP Invertig221 D.V. Water-cooled
                    HTP Pro Pulse 300 MIG
                    HTP Pro Pulse 200 MIG x2
                    HTP Pro Pulse 220 MTS
                    HTP Inverarc 200 TLP water cooled
                    HTP Microcut 875SC

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Forgive em Welding Gods, they're only kids and they are deprived of the EXPERIENCE of learning. They never even heard of Ed Craig, let alone read what Ed has given the world of humble weldors.
                      Worst of all they been led astray by the EVIL hustler punk salesmen in jammies from their beds in mom's basement and mental midgets behind terminals on counters at AirGas

                      Not a one of them has ever opened up a gas mixer and none ever looked at the sleep/awake valve in the wall of a Dental torture chamber and thunk through that it's a was version of the Delta Kitchen faucet.

                      I'm just a dumb weldor, long in years and diminished in sight and sound, and I ain't got the keystrokes left in me to enlighten this crop of kids who wander the earth with a plastic box in hand conditioned to believe the box contains answers. It's a task beyond my remaining rides around the Sun because they only DEMAND answers since they're conditioned to not think or see or hear. They will not learn the Black Magic and can't even memorize the proper incantations.

                      Enlighten them my beloved Gods, light the wax blocking their ears so they can hear. Give them wisdom as they beat the flames from their little boy short pants and wonder as they do what of their anatomy you have taken to teach them permapress polyester burns. Teach them of gravity by dumping a gob of molten steel upon their Crock or Berkenstock so they may learn Physics and pyroChemistry. Deliver them up to the level of knowledge they can understand old farts and even women welded metal with mere flame and electric atc before they came along. And if ya can't, cast them into the pit of AirGas stores!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Oh jeez, not another one. It's getting old already. [/facepalm]
                        HTP Invertig221 D.V. Water-cooled
                        HTP Pro Pulse 300 MIG
                        HTP Pro Pulse 200 MIG x2
                        HTP Pro Pulse 220 MTS
                        HTP Inverarc 200 TLP water cooled
                        HTP Microcut 875SC

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I have a gas mixer. Didn’t get it from Ed whoever though. I just don’t feel the need to complicate my setup considering I don’t add helium very often. I just turn my argon down a tad, float the helium ball a tidbit, give it a couple test beads and off I go. But you’re right, I probably didn’t learn anything from that. Might even have made me dumber, which is a hard sell, but it’s possible. If I was a bettin’ man, which I ain’t, I’d bet that my setup will probably never work again now that I know there is a correct way to do it.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ryanjones2150 View Post
                            I have a gas mixer. Didn’t get it from Ed whoever though. I just don’t feel the need to complicate my setup considering I don’t add helium very often. I just turn my argon down a tad, float the helium ball a tidbit, give it a couple test beads and off I go. But you’re right, I probably didn’t learn anything from that. Might even have made me dumber, which is a hard sell, but it’s possible. If I was a bettin’ man, which I ain’t, I’d bet that my setup will probably never work again now that I know there is a correct way to do it.
                            I'm sure gas mixers are awesome, but I simply figured if this Y'ing thing works good enough for me, well it works good enough for me. I only need to conform to garage code for my work, lol.
                            HTP Invertig221 D.V. Water-cooled
                            HTP Pro Pulse 300 MIG
                            HTP Pro Pulse 200 MIG x2
                            HTP Pro Pulse 220 MTS
                            HTP Inverarc 200 TLP water cooled
                            HTP Microcut 875SC

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Yup.

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