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Bird-nesting on stainless MIG wire

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  • Bird-nesting on stainless MIG wire

    Hello all, Long time no chat!

    Anyways, I have been using my Hobart 190 for several years without much issue (I know not a Miller, but Miller parts at least interchange lol). Recently I ran a 2lb spool of .030" ER308L through the machine it has been giving me nothing but problems. I would be running a bead, then suddenly the wire will fold at the feeder wheels - making it so I would have to cut the wire and waste what's in the torch lead, but worse than that, stop the job and take that time from welding. I am not sure if my local vendor changed suppliers, but have been using the same location for about 11yrs (wire brand is weldcote metals, never really paid attention to previous spools' brands).

    No matter how I adjust the tension/speed/heat, it would weld for about 5-10min, then jam up - driving me crazy. I have never been so happy to see the end of a spool!

    Any insight?

    Thanks,

    -J
    J.Caraher
    Wide Open Throttle Technologies (WOT-Tech), Pompano Beach FL
    Miller Sync 300,Hobart 190
    RogueFab pneumatic, Hossfeld Manual
    Kitamura CNC, Bridgeport 2j
    TunerPRO, HPTuners, AEM, Megasquirt, DynoJet
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  • #2
    Something might be in the liner.

    Ed Conley
    http://www.screamingbroccoli.net/
    MM252
    MM211
    Passport Plus w/Spool Gun
    TA185
    Miller 125c Plasma 120v
    O/A set
    SO 2020 Bender
    You can call me Bacchus

    Comment


    • #3
      Is running stainless wire new for you or is the same wire you’ve been running for years?

      Comment


      • #4
        In order of likelyhood
        Bad tip since it takes time for the problem to happen, Argon has little cooling property
        Needs a new liner

        Comment


        • #5
          To weld five or six minutes is a long time, sounds like something is getting hot and seizing up, the only thing that stays in the heat five or six minutes of welding is the tip, try a one size bigger tip. .

          Are you using Miller tips or knock offs?
          Last edited by tackit; 07-12-2019, 04:15 AM.

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          • #6
            Bigger size liner helps....Bob
            Bob Wright

            Spool Gun conversion. How To Do It. Below.
            http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...php?albumid=48

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by aametalmaster View Post
              Bigger size liner helps....Bob
              That sounds like the best option Bob, if the wire can move freely it shouldn't fold, but I was thinking along the lines if the machine could weld fine for five or six minutes the liner was not the problem. .

              Comment


              • #8
                Might want to check your output guide.
                I’ve seen them wear to where the hole is an oval causing nesting issues.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by manac View Post
                  Might want to check your output guide.
                  I’ve seen them wear to where the hole is an oval causing nesting issues.
                  Good to have you here manac.

                  Comment


                  • #10


                    Originally posted by ryanjones2150 View Post
                    Is running stainless wire new for you or is the same wire you’ve been running for years?
                    Old hat. :P Looked at an old partial spool I had laying around and it appears it's the same brand wire I have always used. Not the first time using stainless - just trying to use up partial spools to avoid a mid-job shopping trip.

                    Originally posted by Franz© View Post
                    In order of likelyhood
                    Bad tip since it takes time for the problem to happen, Argon has little cooling property
                    Needs a new liner
                    Originally posted by Broccoli1 View Post
                    Something might be in the liner.
                    Liner is in good shape. Strange thins is when I switch to mild steel, the issue goes away. New tip was put in on Thursday half way through the issue. I was just trying to use up a partial spool I had whilst doing a tractor bucket repair.

                    Originally posted by tackit View Post
                    To weld five or six minutes is a long time, sounds like something is getting hot and seizing up, the only thing that stays in the heat five or six minutes of welding is the tip, try a one size bigger tip. .

                    Are you using Miller tips or knock offs?
                    Have used both. The problem only happens with stainless. As soon as I put a spool of mild steel in it, I can weld for quite some time - in fact I cannot say I have ever had this machine bird-nest mild steel since ownership (~6yrs or so?)

                    Originally posted by aametalmaster View Post
                    Bigger size liner helps....Bob
                    Liner or tip? I generally run an .035" tip and .030" wire.

                    Originally posted by tackit View Post

                    That sounds like the best option Bob, if the wire can move freely it shouldn't fold, but I was thinking along the lines if the machine could weld fine for five or six minutes the liner was not the problem. .
                    One thing I do notice just before it happens. The bacon sizzle sound goes away and the wire seems to go silent (just molten wire pouring out the end) just before I hear the sound similar to when the spool runs out (free-wheeling), and the wire is bent in a "Z" shape right at the liner guide.

                    Originally posted by manac View Post
                    Might want to check your output guide.
                    I’ve seen them wear to where the hole is an oval causing nesting issues.
                    Will do. Just find it odd that changing to mild steel it goes away (which I did on Thursday when encountering the issue - again). I was just trying to use up the two partial rolls I had to avoid going to the store in the middle of the job. Ended up going to Northern Tool anyways,since it's a couple blocks away and bought some Hobart mild steel - rest of the job went smooth as butter.

                    Last edited by Forced_Firebird; 07-15-2019, 10:49 AM.
                    J.Caraher
                    Wide Open Throttle Technologies (WOT-Tech), Pompano Beach FL
                    Miller Sync 300,Hobart 190
                    RogueFab pneumatic, Hossfeld Manual
                    Kitamura CNC, Bridgeport 2j
                    TunerPRO, HPTuners, AEM, Megasquirt, DynoJet
                    NASA Racing Official/Driver

                    YouTube Link, Instagram Link, FaceBook Link

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I wonder if the partial 2lb spool of SS is binding. I would run into that on Mild steel. PIA on the small rolls.

                      Ed Conley
                      http://www.screamingbroccoli.net/
                      MM252
                      MM211
                      Passport Plus w/Spool Gun
                      TA185
                      Miller 125c Plasma 120v
                      O/A set
                      SO 2020 Bender
                      You can call me Bacchus

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Broccoli1 View Post
                        I wonder if the partial 2lb spool of SS is binding. I would run into that on Mild steel. PIA on the small rolls.
                        The smaller hub and the tighter curls on the wire may be the problem. Good thinking. I ran into the same problem yesterday on my fishing reel...Bob
                        Bob Wright

                        Spool Gun conversion. How To Do It. Below.
                        http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...php?albumid=48

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          That's a possible, but it's a stretch to get to the end problem.
                          IF the stopage is being caused by tight turns it pretty much means the drive rolls are shaving wire as they pull and shavings should be evident in the drive itself. Scarred wire running through the liner or contact tip might be hanging up too. Gotta be evidence someplace.

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                          • #14
                            Save the little spools of alloys that you seldom use. Then you can use them when they are the correct alloy for the job.
                            Use bigger spools for less problems with unwinding.
                            If the spool was the problem the drive rolls would slip and you would possibly burn back instead of birdnesting.
                            I like Bobs suggestion of going to a bigger liner and also the one about the neck getting oval.
                            I say, if you can, now is the time to simply get that nice new gun assembly you've had your eye on. Hang the original on the wall and never look back.
                            Problem solved
                            In my shop we don't have days to solve problems like that. We go for the fastest way to absolutely make it go away. At $100 per hour it doesn't take long to loose money messing with a machine. By the time you try one thing and then another you have wasted a day, and maybe gas and actually spent money on something that may be junk.
                            If this is just a home job..... then I could see fixing on the cheap and hope that my view/perspective isn't too harsh. In my world I have to fix this kind of thing as quickly as I can or everything starts snowballing

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                            • #15
                              When i worked at the LWS a few years ago we had a customer that had a Red mig and had the same problem. I ordered a gooseneck that had a bigger radius in the curve and put a 1/16" liner in it. Problem was solved...Bob
                              Bob Wright

                              Spool Gun conversion. How To Do It. Below.
                              http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...php?albumid=48

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