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  • #16
    Originally posted by Franz© View Post
    Canada is a completely different ball game. Can tickets & stamps belong to the man, and it's up to him to keep his book current.

    In the US Certs belong to either the Company or the Local and go DEAD 10 days after a man leaves the job he's certified for.
    Testing here is at best corrupt, and Trade Schools and Auto Body Suppliers issue FAKE Certificates.

    Good Lard, Canadians even burn Metric rods & wire. How can there be comparison?
    Hmm interesting but I dont know... Its all based on the asme code so I don't see why it would be so different there? Here in BC your issued a log book and your pressure tickets stay active as long as you update your log book. Great system in my opinion, heck yes I welded lots of that GTAW and SMAW stuff at silver creek welding, see the owner signed it himself. But alas all good things come to an end and BC is switching to the Alberta / saskabush system( i dont know what other provinces do since thats as far east as Ive gone) re test every 2 years, doesn't matter that they just shot 10 of your welds yesterday and they all passed. Money grab.
    www.silvercreekwelding.com

    Miller Trailblazer 325 efi
    Miller extreme 12vs
    Thermal arc 186 ac/dc
    Lincoln power wave 455m/stt with 10m dual feeder

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Douglas28 View Post
      I’m wanting to get into the pipefitters because I like welding pipe and really want to get in because no where around here wants to pay anything right now I’m working in a fab shop building huge signs mostly and some other things for 12$ an hour. Usually wouldn’t go under 15-20 but not to far of a drive plus I had got laid off and by the time I found out about it I was broke so I had to go work there
      Ouch. I could make that flipping burgers at mc****s why would I want to weld for that much. There's companies around here that pay these joke wages too, I dont understand why anyone would work for that. Then they complain that they can't find good workers. I think someone from down south will have to chime in as really its different for every province / state and I dont know how pressure certs are issued down there. Sounds as though you may have to go through a bit of an apprenticeship before you weld pipe but Im sure you'll atleast be making more then $12/hr
      www.silvercreekwelding.com

      Miller Trailblazer 325 efi
      Miller extreme 12vs
      Thermal arc 186 ac/dc
      Lincoln power wave 455m/stt with 10m dual feeder

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      • #18
        Yeah it does suck making 12 an hour but I got laid off and had to find work and I would rather weld for that to gain the experience than go outside of welding. I’ve just been keeping my hood down tigin aluminum till I find something. Everything around here doesn’t pay seems like structural or unions the way to make money but I don’t have the five years experience yet it’ll all add up eventually tho

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        • #19
          Douglas where are you located?

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          • #20
            East Tennessee

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            • #21
              Quick assessment of easily available information says there aren't a lot of open pipe weldor/fitter jobs in E Tennessee unless you want to commute a long distance.
              Most such jobs seem to center around Nashville with contractors, requiring travel.

              Pay rates offered in the area are low by comparison with other regions of the country, and 12 bucks an hour is good pay for welding there. CWI jobs are being offered at 17 bucks.

              I see at least 5 Locals in the State and it appears all of them are bringing new apprentices in indicating UA has all the pipe work in the State locked up.
              I also note the Locals have been recruiting for these classes since January 2018. This tells me many candidates either arrive from the Welfare office, or can't pass the drug test. We have a similar situation here.

              This list will show you a good outline of the Local 13 process for selection as well as an idea of the academic end of the program by clicking the training schedule.
              https://ualocal13.org/application-process/

              It's a good program that can take a young man or woman to a decent paying career. The program is suffering for want of qualified applicants who can meet requirements.

              I advise anyone to pay particular attention to the math requirement and ability to do the test without a calculator. ONLY Eberhard Faber calculators are allowed. The test itself isn't difficult, fact is it's what was 7th grade math when I was in school. Test scores are pathetic from the calculator/device crowd.

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              • #22
                Generally, you can pick your location or pick your job, otherwise you'll have to find something else to do or another place to live.

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                • #23
                  If they put the same criterial on alcohol consumption to those work place piss tests it would shut the place down altogether. They don't but if they did...?
                  This war on drugs crowd will one day find themselves without workers and the wonder will be why profits are down?

                  Don't think I don't get it, I do. Impaired workers are unsafe workers.

                  But piss testing is really a cover your butt solution to what's perceived as a problem when in actuality, it offers a very false sense of security unless regular testing is maintained.
                  But they test you once, call it clear or below the mark and send you to work. If you work in the office chances are you won't be tested as often. But if one on the crew screws up they test the lot and even if you weren't involved in the mishap, you test positive your guilty of causing the problem?

                  https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-new-impaired-driving-law-1.4609654

                  "The officers who would normally spend two or three hours doing an impaired driving investigation now only have to spend 20 minutes for each one. And every one of those they're going to have fines ... and that's just going to fill up the coffers, so it's a win-win for the government."

                  An erosion of rights is what it is. I know a number of people who go clean to pass the test, once they do, it's back to evening puffs to relax and they show up the next day on time and good to go. Are they impaired? Should they be prevent from working?
                  Or the guy who goes home after a shift and gets plastered drinking a 26 of rum, next day is hung over and moving slow, is he a better worker as a result of have a clean drug free piss test?

                  One thing is certain, we pay for the out come. I limit my evening driving now because in Alberta, going out for a late night pizza and beer can cause you a whole lot of grief from a ticket writing cop who thinks he smells weed or booze regardless of impairment or driver condition. Guilty until you can prove your innocent. My COPD limits my ability to blow so that would be a guilty just because I couldn't.
                  I liked it better when weed was illegal, they needed a reason too pull you over, and cops caught criminals.

                  That said, do they piss test at Walmart? McDonalds? How about those cops...how often do they get tested? It's a money making racket out there and the little guy pays for it regardless.

                  And that math testing...I'll rant on that and the education system another time but suffice to say, I'd fire most of them.


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                  • #24
                    Noel, I think we'll just agree to disagree on impared workers. My position on drunks is simple, they are involved in a wreck the responding cop cuffs the drunk to the nearest pole and leaves the drunk for buzzardchow.

                    Every employee I had with a company vehicle signed his undated resignation and handed it to me when he got the keys understanding fully it would be dated 1 hour before they crashed a company vehicle under the influence.

                    My policy on dope has always been NOT ON MY PROPERTY or Job. I find it you are gone.

                    My stepson was a doper and alcy and when he told the Apprenticeship coordinator what to do with the piss test, and I heard about it I personally Black Balled him as far as I could reach, For Life both Union and Non Union as well as Civil Service.

                    The trades are dangerous enough without dope or alcohol.

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                    • #25
                      I think we are on the same page as far as zero on the job, zero to impaired workers. What we seemingly disagree about is the comparison and degree of impairment of such workers and what we'll let side as acceptable?

                      I'm in Alberta. Pot's legal. So's booze. They tax the stuff? Only reason it (pot) was legalized was it got the Liberal voted in. Curb the black market crap my butt. Votes and a revenue stream.
                      Create a bigger problem and expand the police force and the powers they have to issue fines and generate revenue. That's what it accomplished.

                      I have a buddy who likes to puff a jay because he doesn't drink. That guy is a hard worker, does technical work, is liked and respected and shows for work every day. But he smokes pot. He's obviously a bad man by some standards?

                      I'm not talking the sketchy pipe meth/crack heads, or needle junkies, those f$%k ups won't make the job list let alone get up at 6am. Some say they are just broken toys never to be fixed. I say it's mental health, PTSD, and damaged good that can't be returned but may be made to function normally with time effort and support?

                      I had a friend of a friend who tested positive in Ft Mac for opioids after eating a poppy seed bagel? Who set the bar on those tests anyways?
                      30 days off and had to go take a drug treatment program before they let him back on the job, and he wasn't a pot smoker or a heavy drinker. But they tagged him a druggie.

                      I'm also of the opinion the show of force behind our nation's federal drug policies, individual state and provincial drug policies, leaves plenty to be desired. Where do they hit you, in the wallet. It's about money. Criminal records, fines and incarceration? I shake my head? But those policies guide industry.

                      If they put in place a ZERO policy on drugs/alcohol and collected samples daily, I'd agree it holds a value. They don't however due to cost. But this piss to get a job and forget about it...random testing...I don't buy it. Smart one's quit on the spot, sit for thirty and back on the board.

                      With all due respect Franz, that undated resignation... that smells of turn a blind eye until it effects you then resolve yourself of responsibility? But that's my opinion. No offense intended.

                      I'm more of a know your limit stay with in it kind of guy but that doesn't work for everyone, I get that as well. We can probably agree that that segment of society won't be seeking union work these days anyways? But limiting a man's ability to work, after consuming a legal product...that's wrong, but they do it anyways because they can.

                      For the record, both times I found my head in a bowl wasn't from smoking a joint. Having said that, twice was enough to know my limit on drinking.

                      https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/b...-alcohol-abuse


                      "While overdoses claim many lives and opioid abuse is an ever-worsening problem,
                      alcohol abuse ends 88,000 lives per year
                      . Alcohol misuse also leads to myriad other harms and young people are more likely to use alcohol than other
                      drugs
                      ."

                      I hope the kid pisses and passes, makes it through
                      life without crutches to carry him. Some do.... but most don't.

                      But if you want clean workers, that gene pool is a weakening commodity and I don't see it improving anytime soon.
                      I would bet money he may not smoke pot, but could he pass a zero alcohol test if it was required?
                      Maybe he'll come back and enlighten us?







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                      • #26
                        Actually undated resignations accomplished 2 things. First and foremost it reminded people to think before acting in a manner that would be costly, and second it gave me some breathing room against Insurance carriers. As to looking the other way, I'd have needed a turntable and 1500 mile vision to see all my people on a given day. We were generally spread across 5 states and thankfully compensated for travel and accomodations.

                        I have a bit of interest in history, and have looked into the 1918 Harrison Narcotics Act fairly deep. It was stupid, unnecessary and passed to make a small group of men very happy. It also removed from people in need some very helpful drugs. Prior to Harrison the average street drug purity was over 95%, and 2% of the population were addicted. Addiction was primarily to Morphine Sulfate and Bayer's wonderful drug developed at the behest of taxpayers, Heroin. That addiction was commonly known as "Old Soldier's Disease" since many addicts were veterans of the War of Northern Aggression.
                        That's a very short description of one fork of the road.

                        The other fork is Marijuana/hemp/ditchweed. It remained legal and available into the Depression era. Not inclusive of the hemp the US Navy contracted the planting of weed was growing wild, and International Harvester had developed fine equipment to harvest it. A strange trio, Earl Warren, Dupont and Hearst became bedfellows and all he!! broke loose on pot. Just for reference the US Constitution is written on hemp paper, and hemp made superior paper to wood chips in 1930. Hearst & DuPont had worked together to develope a bleaching process for wood paper and Hearst had bought thousands of acres of trees he intended to print newspapers on. Hemp needed to go away for their financial enrichment. Warren wanted all Mexicans out of California so US Citizens could have the jobs Mexicans held, and Pot was the recreational drug of choice among Mexicans since it was primarily free and beer cost money.
                        Add in player #4, Harry Anslinger, Director of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics, companion and competing agency to Hoover's FBI. FBI was expanding amd FBN needed to expand, so when the trio came to Anslinger he was happy to help Marijuana Law through Congress. The records and much of the testimony is on line and worth reading. We all know how it turned out, and a whole new industry was born. Drug Enforcement began swallowing Dollars like a whale harvesting Krill.

                        Problem was. like Prohibition it didn't work. Malum in Se Laws rarely work.

                        Pot pretty much remained regional till the 60s when I could rattle Rochester and maybe shake out a pound. By 1973, same city I could easily find a pound on every block. Uncle Ho used Pot very effectively against US troops in the Nam. Many GIs died because they were high. Pot was in US society like alcohol had been during Prohibition though, and I knew several farm boys cultivating crop, to the extent the local school district eliminated FFA and demolished the green house.

                        Right now we're watching Colorado learn about Pot, along with several other States, and it don't look like it will come out on the + side of the line 5 years out. California has a major problem, they ran out of legal pot and bootleg vendors are popping up causing Licensed shops to complain the Government ain't enforcing the Law.

                        My personal position is I don't give a d@m what you swallow or inhale, as long as you don't do it on my job or land. I have no intention of having to deal with problems on a job because an employee smoked it up or drank it up, so I am ZERO tolerance. I also know there is a percentage of the population that will addict to pot and I can guarantee you human life forms who begin smoking pot at age 12 won't get beyond age 13 mentally.
                        Very simply I won't tolerate it. Tolerance leads to acceptance and acceptance leads to expectation. I make the rules because I sign the checks.

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