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.023 wire troubleshooting

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  • .023 wire troubleshooting

    On my Miller 172 I usually use .030 wire but I use .023 for 16 gauge. I can use .030 but .023 works better. I have 4 voltage settings but on
    023 if I use #2 it spits and sputters #3 is better. I'm not having this problem with .030. I've changed the tip and fresh c25 gas. Any ideas to what's going on?

  • #2
    voltage controls the arc length and thus bead height/width to a certain extent. You also need to adjust the wire feed speed.
    HTP Invertig221 D.V. Water-cooled
    HTP Pro Pulse 300 MIG
    HTP Pro Pulse 200 MIG x2
    HTP Pro Pulse 220 MTS
    HTP Inverarc 200 TLP water cooled
    HTP Microcut 875SC

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    • #3
      Spits and sputters.?
      While I'm inclined to agree with Oscar Jr. about the WFS and need for adjustment, I'd also mention stick out. When you've done a weld, how much is sticking out for wire? A length is what I'm wondering about. 1/4", 5/16", 3/8" ? Longer? Shorter?
      Does it appear to surge? Burn back a ball and explode off? Are you getting lots of splatter? Is it feeding consistently with drive roll tension? Can you post a picture?

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      • #4
        I've adjusted wire feed speed and I use about 3/8 +/- stickout. I'm thinking something on the tension either drive roll or the wire spool. I'll try to post a picture later.

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        • #5
          Starting with the basics. Is the gun cable pretty straight with no coils or sharp bends from welder to gun? Have you blown out the liner with compressed air and verified that the wire pushes through without binding? Is it the correct liner for .023? How long is the gun, 10ft, 12ft? Could it be that the #3 setting is the sweet spot on that machine?
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          • #6
            Originally posted by breavis View Post
            I've adjusted wire feed speed and I use about 3/8 +/- stickout. I'm thinking something on the tension either drive roll or the wire spool. I'll try to post a picture later.
            I have a gate that uses a rubber bungie cord to return the gate closed. When it was new, the rubber fresh, the gate would need to be forced open, and it would slam shut in return. Now the gate easily pushes open, and slowly returns to a closed position.

            I don't know what your problem is, but my understanding of what could be the problem has me thinking it's not you, it's as I've discovered, similar to my gate, "things" are starting to show their age? Not moving or reacting as quickly, but catch up and function just the same?

            To add to what MMW mentioned, if #3 is a sweet spot, a longer stick out (extension) makes it arc length a #2, shorter stick out a #4. In the case of the gate, shortening the rubber in it's present position or lengthening it with more stretch to increase tension.

            In a previous post of mine I mentioned an issue I discovered that sounds very much like what you describe occurring? I didn't fix the problem. I minimized the effects of it by reducing resistance in the drive roll gear box and drive motor thru lubrication. I'm not saying that's your issue or that it will help. In essence I lubricated the hinges, left the rubber as it was. Gate open and closes.





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            • #7
              Correct drive wheel?
              ---Meltedmetal

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Meltedmetal View Post
                Correct drive wheel?
                Yes, they all share a few things in common, but there are differences for different wire diameters/sizes.



                HTP Invertig221 D.V. Water-cooled
                HTP Pro Pulse 300 MIG
                HTP Pro Pulse 200 MIG x2
                HTP Pro Pulse 220 MTS
                HTP Inverarc 200 TLP water cooled
                HTP Microcut 875SC

                Comment


                • #9
                  Did a couple of beads today. I'm having trouble uploading pictures IlI' try later but using .023 wire voltage #2 was more of the same. #3 was ok #4 did very good. I also ran beads with .030, #2 wasn't bad, #3 was good. I'm thinking there is a problem with the switch or something in the machine. Sometimes I run into this, sometimes this doesn't happen.

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                  • #10

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                    • #11
                      The top bead is voltage #3 50 wire feed speed, the middle bead is voltage#2 70 wire feed speed, that's where I'm having trouble. The bottom bead is voltage #4 50 wire feed speed, ran good but too hot for 16 gauge!

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                      • #12
                        Click image for larger version  Name:	image_37736.jpg Views:	0 Size:	89.3 KB ID:	596940 Blown up and enlarged my next suggestion would be regarding shielding gas or lack of due to the splatter, porosity and browning smoke along the edges?
                        It could be a drop in gas pressure? Gas regulator malfunction? Not enough gas shielding coverage? Low cylinder pressure? Lacking shielding due to long stick out, gas blown away, or a solenoid not opening fully?

                        You have to rule out what it might be and to do that you have to try different things to prove or confirm things are working as they should. I'm going to guess, and guess it will be, it's not you it's a cheap preset regulator gauge malfunctioning? Increase gas pressure and see if it fixes the problem, or weld with less stick out to ensure better gas coverage. The 3/8" (+/-) you mentioned, try maybe 1/4" (+/-).
                        Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5239.JPG
Views:	242
Size:	68.3 KB
ID:	596941 I also noticed the WFS you mentioned, in a edited after thought, seems high to me? Do a few welds on the "one" voltage setting, WFS @ 20,30,40. Post a few pictures and see what's discovered?
                        Last edited by Noel; 05-03-2019, 10:34 AM.

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                        • #13
                          I'll try turning up the gas flow, then try the 1 voltage suggestion. Thanks for all the help!

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by breavis View Post
                            I'll try turning up the gas flow, then try the 1 voltage suggestion. Thanks for all the help!
                            Looking at your picture again, assuming an increase in gas coverage doesn't solve the problem, and the small effort required to check voltage taps and WFS stepping doesn't identify a possible WFS issue, post a picture of the guns contact tip, and nozzle.
                            Is the tip recessed, flush or slightly extended? Worn oval on the end? I'm trying to stay on the simple and easy check while side stepping the possibility of something worse going on.
                            You doing it right suggests something else is causing the problem. #3 says, your probably doing it right so??? Looking at the starts of #2 and #3 suggests something is amiss although #3 pulls it together?

                            Anyways, If an increase in gas coverage doesn't fix the problem, all hope is lost.

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                            • #15
                              Presuming you're employing a good .023 tip, my next suspicion - Possible lineritus disease.
                              With the tip removed squirt out 5-10 feet of wire and inspect the wire for damage. Liner issues that won't bother .030 will cause nightmares with .023.
                              Are there kinks or sharp bends in the liner?

                              Food rule of thumb in troubleshooting is to first inspect/suspect the component closest to where the problem displays and work uphill from there till you find it.

                              Back the wire out, pull the tip and blow the liner out with dry compressed air.

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