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profax 200-1# married to mm 251

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  • profax 200-1# married to mm 251

    newbee here...... and having problems hooking up my profax spool gun ..the problems are first: spool gun runs ccw when hooked up to + c and - b so I swapped them around when I try to weld it goes to hlp-1 after 3" of weld.
    everything else seems to work fine (mig welding) when spool guns not plugged in...
    I have phoned miller tech support and they said it was the pc board 220069 discontinued.
    New board is 236583 $450
    Anyone know the pin out of profax gun to mm251 10 pin receptical ?
    Also is it a good idea to have the 220069 board repaired ?

  • #2
    Well, nothing so far....must be someone here who can help with this.


    • #3
      Little more to even beginning to figure the answer out.

      My initial hunch is the problem was made worse by the quick & dirty polarity swap.

      Might be able to gain some ground if full information on the machine and gun were available, but many different versions of each item were probably made and slight changes made to the wiring in every "New & Improved" model.
      After all, machine manufacturers need to sell machines, so they tend to not make things back compatible.


      • #4
        Manual that came with spool gun says that the drive motor is wired for reverse polarity so i just reversed the wires..
        My machine is a miller 251 with the 220069 pc board that shuts down after a few minutes while the spool gun is plugged in and displays hlp-1..
        like to know if there has been a problem with these boards and that's the reason there discontinued


        • #5
          Originally posted by V- eight View Post
          like to know if there has been a problem with these boards and that's the reason there discontinued
          Those were good machines 10 or 11 + years ago. The new board was prob an upgrade or one component was changed so a new number.
          Last edited by aametalmaster; 04-28-2019, 09:05 AM.
          Bob Wright


          • #6
            Manufacturers are mandated by US Law to provide parts for machines for 7 years after the machine is shipped.
            Parts are not as profitable as machine sales.
            When you build machines you update or upgrade the machine to establish a start date on the 7 year clock.

            There is little to be done helping you unless you provide necessary information to look into the problem.


            • #7
              Franz what information do you need? I was hoping someone that has wired this spool gun to a miller 251 could give me the information on the pin out ..The g


              • #8
                Profax shows about 5 models of that gun with many minor differences.

                Looks like minimally 3 control boxes too.

                There is also the question of what the blue power source does on a regular gun directly connected to the machine.

                Without exact basic information there is no point to expending time trying to solve the problem.


                • #9
                  well I need to solve the problem.and looking for some input to do so..The profax model aec -200 1# has 8 wires pos & neg go to motor bl & red go to( b &c )*
                  white goes to jog (j) *
                  orange micro switch go to( trigger) (g)*
                  purple micro (switch) go to (trig.rtn) (d)*
                  yellow low speed( cw) go to (e)*
                  green med speed go to ( wiper) (f)*
                  blue high speed (ccw) go to (h) *
                  * letters that are on the miller amphenol plug
                  This is how I have it figured out for now
                  I live out of town and will take my machine to a relative who has a 30a gun to see if it still goes into the Hlp-1 mode As soon as i can... meanwhile there must be lots of other people who have done this..And like to hear from them


                  • #10
                    Have you consulted with profax on a solution?


                    • #11
                      Miller book says HLP 1 is loss of communication
                      HL.P 001 − Communication Lost between Control Board PC1 and Display Board PC2 HL.P 002 − Unit over temperature, unit is inoperative until temperature is reduced inside unit (see Section 6-2) HL.P 003 − No Open Circuit Voltage (OCV) detected when either trigger is pulled HL.P 004 − Gun trigger was engaged for approximately 2 minutes with no arc detected, or weld wire is stuck causing a direct short. If HL.P 004 occurs during power up, see Section 6-6. HL.P 005 − Wire feed malfunction. Check wire feed delivery system (see Section 6-6). See Section 6-6 for additional information on all HL.P codes.



                      • #12
                        Yes I contacted profax and they do not recommend any changes to there guns ..I didn't like that response so I asked them again same answer then i asked if I could buy a motor from them that runs cw because the gun and all there components are made in the US not in China is why I bought the gun making it worth my trouble getting it to work with the mm 251.. They told me to just switch the wires ..I bought the gun off craigslist from a guy that had bought a L-tec welder with the profax spool gun for that machine and never used it.... so he decided to sell it cheep... I had also bought the miller 251 used off craigslist hoping I could get into some aluminum welding ..Im retired and on a pension and live out of town so I don't have a lot money therefore I have to try and fix things myself... Anyways I see you can get these boards repaired and like to know if any ones had one repaired. I hope to know more once I try the 30a spool gun plugged into my machine
                        And thank you for trying to Help me out


                        • #13
                          We never hear about the successful board repairs here, just the failures.


                          • #14
                            Problem is we still really don't know what the problem is other than the display is showing a message that supposedly means one board in the machine has lost communication with another board.

                            That in and of itself is strange. How does the board that lost communication know it lost communication and how does it display that message?

                            Add to that Coincidence is not necessarily causation.

                            What we do KNOW is minimal.

                            Reality is the spool gun is only a couple components away from a standard MIG gun, namely the drive motor and speed of drive remoted from machine to gun.

                            Connections from gun to machine are only minimally different from a standard MIG gun as well.

                            All of that established, the question becomes WHERE is the problem and how to find it.

                            Right up front I'm going to say I ain't thrilled with ProFax and their available information.

                            As previously said, I'd prefer to put the machine back to factory condition FIRST, but that isn't convenient in this situation, so move to Plan B

                            Segregate the 2 units, and crank up the power source with the machine wire drive prevented from shoving wire out the front. This is usually easy by just opening the feed roller.

                            Second step is to trigger the machine feed with a jumper and see what happens with a plan in place to SHUT IT DOWN if smoke appears.
                            Smoke= Shut Down and load machine for trip to dealer
                            No Smoke = trigger a few times and see if Error code appears.

                            Next in sequence of testing would be the spool gun.
                            Now, right here is where it becomes fun.
                            ProFax information indicates their desired setup is to use a box they manufacture to provide power for the gun motor and they have also included in the box a small relay to minimize arcing on the microswitch trigger.
                            That tells me they experienced problems back when they started selling these guns and came up with a profitable fix.

                            Without testing and confirming good/bad the blue end of the system, the marriage can't be accomplished.

                            Your opinion may differ.


                            • #15
                              First Thanks The mig part of the welder seems to work fine....I have a welding project for it on friday and will see what happens then..also I will have a 30a spool gun that i can try results after...
                              About the profax aec spool gun wiring I could not find any diagrams for the direct connect spool gun to miller 10 pin 251...that they sell..Nor would they supply me with it when I phoned them........ this form is my last hope...
                              I have used these guns lots from time to time when working in different shops as a fabricator yes there heavy but always worked great for me...If anyone can confirm that the way I have it wired is correct would help eliminate the gun