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  • #16
    Originally posted by snoeproe View Post

    This was the mentality of many companies years back. Telling their pressure welders that their pressure tickets qualified them to weld to other codes and standards. Truth is being qualified to one code or standard does not qualify you to weld in a different code or standard. As a level 1 inspector I would think you would already understand that? This was merely a company trying to cheat the system. Liabilities have made this practice frowned upon more so these days.
    The structural CWB tickets are renewed every 2 years also. Doesn’t matter if you weld everyday or not. Pressure tickets in most other provinces are renewed every 2 years also. Weather you weld pipe everyday or
    not. Alberta requires jman certification in the trade to weld to codes and standards. Most other provinces do not.
    Pick your province you wish to work in and jump through the hoops that are required to work there. It’s what we do. If you don’t like jumping through hoops to go to work as a welder, it’s time to do something different.
    Of course I understand that. I was reciprocating what Noel was saying about the whole system being a money grab.
    www.silvercreekwelding.com

    Miller Trailblazer 325 efi
    Miller extreme 12vs
    Thermal arc 186 ac/dc
    Lincoln power wave 455m/stt with 10m dual feeder

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    • #17
      The province is Alberta and yes it's a stick test not tig, I only mentioned the Tig because I did a pressure test earlier in the week and have no problem doing stick on pipe but suddenly with this plate test it just doesn't want to go.

      I took a closer look at the rods, they're ESAB 309L-17 rods, every brand I look at has them listed as good for horizontal and flat only but when I spoke to the tester about it he assured me they are Infact good for all position. Oddly enough though when I try to do the same test but with Lincoln 309L-16 rods I have zero issues....

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      • #18
        Originally posted by MetalCaterpillar View Post
        The province is Alberta and yes it's a stick test not tig, I only mentioned the Tig because I did a pressure test earlier in the week and have no problem doing stick on pipe but suddenly with this plate test it just doesn't want to go.

        I took a closer look at the rods, they're ESAB 309L-17 rods, every brand I look at has them listed as good for horizontal and flat only but when I spoke to the tester about it he assured me they are Infact good for all position. Oddly enough though when I try to do the same test but with Lincoln 309L-16 rods I have zero issues....
        https://www.esabna.com/us/en/product...9l-17-plus.cfm

        A guy looks at a chart and has to ask himself...if the recommended amperage is 55-120 in a flat position, why do they recommend 55-70 for vertical? Your welding a fillet to two 1/2" plates. What if the factory testing plates were 1/4" ?
        Pity the WPS written by a guy who doesn't know better?

        Alberta you say, what part? Don't mean to pry but did you apprentice in the province? If so, where did you go to school? Who you voting for?

        But back to the problem...So you dropping dollar's an failing or just practicing and failing? I'm still thinking you need to post a picture? Two reasons. 1st reason, the different slag characteristics require adjustments/modification/tweaking to supporting and carrying the weld pool. 2nd reason, the AWS Handbook reads something about it being more fluid requiring a slightly larger puddle with a slight weave. As well something about a spray transfer mode. I'm not sure "how" you weld, but on the higher end of the amperage, low arc force, it's frequent side to side in a drunken wobble to build a shelf, moving up steadily piling ripples. Don't drop the rod angle.

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        • #19
          Maybe you could ask the tester to give you demonstration since he knows more about the welding rod from esab than esab does.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by MetalCaterpillar View Post
            The province is Alberta and yes it's a stick test not tig, I only mentioned the Tig because I did a pressure test earlier in the week and have no problem doing stick on pipe but suddenly with this plate test it just doesn't want to go.

            I took a closer look at the rods, they're ESAB 309L-17 rods, every brand I look at has them listed as good for horizontal and flat only but when I spoke to the tester about it he assured me they are Infact good for all position. Oddly enough though when I try to do the same test but with Lincoln 309L-16 rods I have zero issues....
            All else fails, sneak in some of the Lincoln rods lol? I haven't used enough of it to say which brands are better but there is a big difference in quality in stainless rod between brands.
            www.silvercreekwelding.com

            Miller Trailblazer 325 efi
            Miller extreme 12vs
            Thermal arc 186 ac/dc
            Lincoln power wave 455m/stt with 10m dual feeder

            Comment


            • #21
              We did some testing on different brands of E7018 back in the day. Keep in mind, all electrode brands tested, ESAB, Lincoln, Miller, Hobart, were AWS stamp friendly. When discussing operating parameters, ESAB was the rod given the highest marks for puddle control at higher amperage ranges. When looking at the MSDS, it was discovered a high level of Cobalt listed in ESAB ingredients as well mentioned as a presented hazard?

              As Ryan mentioned, maybe buddy needs to be shown how it's done? Monkey see, monkey do? I'm guessing he's welding it like a E7018 and he needs to weld it like a E6013, or E7014, with a tighter control on amperage, arc length, rod inclination and movement. What do they say about doing the say thing over and over while expecting different results?

              Kind of like asking the question, how do you pass a bend test? The simple response is with a ductile weld deposit. So asking the question how do you achieve penetration into the corner, sit there long enough to make sure it melts.

              As Willvis mentions, there are differences in manufactured product, and how product/consumables are manufactured. It's not a far reach to grasp that they might also require modification in technique to apply them.

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              • #22
                Speaking of rod differences, it's probably mostly personal preference. However, in 7018, I keep both esab atom arc and lincoln Excalibur in my rod oven. It prefer the Excalibur rod, but when welding vertical up, to me at least, the atom arc is superior in control. That's not to say that all of esab rods are better than other brands, just something I've worked out for my own style. So maybe there's something to the differences.

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                • #23
                  For 7018 Esab is my favourite. I like the little graphite coated tips for the ease of starts. They also run fairly smooth. Second up would be air liquide rods. I find they are often the smoothest but they had some major qc problems for a while. Rods that didn't have the steel centered in the flux and such. Companies were throwing boxes of the stuff away. Lincolns my least favourite, I find the weld to be very rough looking afterwords. Everyone has their own preference though. For 309 its going to be entirely different. I think the bohler stuff is pretty good. Again Usually the only time I use it is when I absolutely have to like on a test. Any other time its tig all the way.
                  www.silvercreekwelding.com

                  Miller Trailblazer 325 efi
                  Miller extreme 12vs
                  Thermal arc 186 ac/dc
                  Lincoln power wave 455m/stt with 10m dual feeder

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Noel View Post

                    https://www.esabna.com/us/en/product...9l-17-plus.cfm

                    A guy looks at a chart and has to ask himself...if the recommended amperage is 55-120 in a flat position, why do they recommend 55-70 for vertical? Your welding a fillet to two 1/2" plates. What if the factory testing plates were 1/4" ?
                    Pity the WPS written by a guy who doesn't know better?

                    Alberta you say, what part? Don't mean to pry but did you apprentice in the province? If so, where did you go to school? Who you voting for?

                    But back to the problem...So you dropping dollar's an failing or just practicing and failing? I'm still thinking you need to post a picture? Two reasons. 1st reason, the different slag characteristics require adjustments/modification/tweaking to supporting and carrying the weld pool. 2nd reason, the AWS Handbook reads something about it being more fluid requiring a slightly larger puddle with a slight weave. As well something about a spray transfer mode. I'm not sure "how" you weld, but on the higher end of the amperage, low arc force, it's frequent side to side in a drunken wobble to build a shelf, moving up steadily piling ripples. Don't drop the rod angle.
                    I did apprentice in province and I did both NAIT and SAIT.

                    It was just a test that was kind of sprung on me by an employer last minute and I figured since I didn't have issues with stainless prior I'd give it a go but it didn't work out. They want me to retest but I thought I would get some outside ideas before hand.

                    I'll see about getting some photos, I don't get to practice much but the last time I switched to a more "lazy j" type of movement with the rod and it cleaned up my overhead and horizontal but the vert is still an issue with the 309

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by MetalCaterpillar View Post

                      I did apprentice in province and I did both NAIT and SAIT.

                      It was just a test that was kind of sprung on me by an employer last minute and I figured since I didn't have issues with stainless prior I'd give it a go but it didn't work out. They want me to retest but I thought I would get some outside ideas before hand.

                      I'll see about getting some photos, I don't get to practice much but the last time I switched to a more "lazy j" type of movement with the rod and it cleaned up my overhead and horizontal but the vert is still an issue with the 309

                      What year and years of apprenticeship did you go thru NAIT? Any chance you remember who your instructors were?
                      Click image for larger version

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                      I know this is the stuff that's taken for granted when we discover the forgiving nature of the process, but while not all inclusive, as that rod burns, these variables help to control it.
                      Weld to the slag. Did you ever do a weld where when you were done the slag stacked so consistently it was to nice too chip? Lol...then you smashed it off anyways to reveal the beauty underneath didn't you? Well, you think of the way the rod burns, the slag and droplet size, the combination of amps, voltage and the arcs length controlling arc force and fluidity as it washes, dilutes and sluggishly fills layer upon layer and solidifies, that the layers of which will be a hot semi molten swirling fluid mush controlled thru consistent movement and motions with slight progressions, you will have things figured out I'm sure.

                      They allow a 5/16" fillet. 1/2" plates. Think Chubby Checker and do the twist.

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHGXwQeUk7M

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