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  • Stainless Steel T Joint vertical

    Does anyone have any tips on how to help, I'm just not getting enough penetration into the corner.

    I'm using 1/8 309 SS rod, it's a t joint made up of 1/2" thick carbon plates.

    I'm doing them in the horizontal, vertical and overhead positions

    It's a CWB test weld so I can't change the size of the rod (I feel like it wouldn't be an issue if I could drop down to 3/32) and I can't use a grinder (except to get rid of the millscale where I'm going to be welding)

    I normally don't have issues with SS, I Tig and weld pipe fine with it but all of a sudden I'm trying to weld some fillets on some plates and nothing wants to work.

  • #2
    What are your current settings?

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    • #3
      Around 115/120 for my horizontal and overhead. I haven't really settled on an amperage I like for my vertical but I've been playing around in the 90s.

      I have my arc force maxed out at this point as well

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by MetalCaterpillar View Post
        Around 115/120 for my horizontal and overhead. I haven't really settled on an amperage I like for my vertical but I've been playing around in the 90s.

        I have my arc force maxed out at this point as well
        Arc force maxed out? Hmm? I'm going to sit back and see how this plays out for advice, because mine would start with turn it down.

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        • #5
          On pipe I usually have it at about half, when I first was experimenting I dropped it all the way down and it looked nice but it had no bite and you only get 1 pass with a stop/start to get it to hold

          Comment


          • #6
            If you're having some trouble getting into the root, then I imagine you're having some trouble with the slag trying to overrun the weld puddle too. If that's the case, bump up the amperage and see how she chooches.

            I don't know a whole lot about the arc force feature on your machine, but I have adjusted it and played with it on a few of my machines. I don't think it's magic, but I don't recall ever having it maxed out either.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by MetalCaterpillar View Post
              Does anyone have any tips on how to help, I'm just not getting enough penetration into the corner.

              I'm using 1/8 309 SS rod, it's a t joint made up of 1/2" thick carbon plates.

              I'm doing them in the horizontal, vertical and overhead positions

              It's a CWB test weld so I can't change the size of the rod (I feel like it wouldn't be an issue if I could drop down to 3/32) and I can't use a grinder (except to get rid of the millscale where I'm going to be welding)

              I normally don't have issues with SS, I Tig and weld pipe fine with it but all of a sudden I'm trying to weld some fillets on some plates and nothing wants to work.
              CWB test weld as a "T" joint had me baffled? So I looked it up and look at that, a 1/2 test. Learn something new if you show the interest? Well I dropped out of the race in 2011 and noticed the change was implemented in 2015. Lol...if you can't raise the bar lower the standard. What a money making racket welder testing has become. How much does that test cost a guy?

              https://www.axisinspection.com/cwb-o...qualification/

              You want some good advice post a picture.
              You want generic advice, lower the test assembly, watch your torch inclination and angle, turn down the arc force ( but if you can explain what it does, how it effects your welding, I'll let it slide), move the puddle up and into the corners then down slightly to add rod and fill. You could also advise us on the taper of your tungsten, estimate of arc length, and if you think your welding cold or hot or just right?

              The appearance of your weld could suggest we agree or disagree so post a picture.

              What part of the great white north do you reside?


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              • #8
                I think he's stick welding. At least, that's what I got out of it.

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                • #9
                  In hind sight, I'm thinking you could be correct? It just hit me...It's a very good possibility you are correct and I stand to be corrected. I just assumed with the low currents it was GTAW?
                  Guess a picture would have answered that question?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Noel View Post
                    In hind sight, I'm thinking you could be correct? It just hit me...It's a very good possibility you are correct and I stand to be corrected. I just assumed with the low currents it was GTAW?
                    Guess a picture would have answered that question?
                    I was trying to figure this out as well, the last sentence in his 1st post is about TIG, and lead me to think so, until he mentions arc force...
                    Richard

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                    • #11
                      The CWB stainless smaw test is not easy. The vertical plate is a challenge. Lots of testers end up redoing this one. It’s like trying to smear water on a wall.
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Noel View Post
                        What a money making racket welder testing has become. How much does that test cost a guy?
                        You are absouletly right and the CWB has got it mastered. Used to be if a guy had his pressure tickets you could weld on pipe brackets no problem. Now suddenly you need a cwb ticket to weld on a bracket? Pressure tickets should override that CWB non-sense but then how would the government make money on all the weld testing? Here's another silly one: Re-testing every 2 years for pressure tickets in Alberta. Now there's another cash grab. So if your doing it day in and day out, you suddenly forget how to weld after 2 years? I like the BC system, keep a log book and all is good. Aren't your first 2 qualifiers on a job going to sort out if you can weld or not anyways. Between all the safety tickets and welding tickets in Alberta a guy probably spend a week out of every year to keep it all active. The price to pay if you want to weld in the oilfield I guess... Pretty hard to keep it all up to date when there's no work there now. Oh, I also had my CWB welding inspector ticket for 6 years and did not use it once. You need to know someone to get into a job. For some reason they prefer to let people with a collage education but no welding experience become inspectors instead of a welder that actually knows what hes doing and looking at.

                        I also wonder what province this is in? I'm going to take a wild guess and say Ontario?

                        As to the original question I can't offer to much advice as I've never done this test. I also thought he was talking about Tig at first but realized later it must be stick. Generally on any CWB test you want to run as hot as possible to burn that first pass into the square edge. I realize that is very difficult with ER309l, it runs like crap in vertical... Try running hot and whipping the rod a bit to control the heat? After about half the rod it is probably glowing red and will start to run like crap, might as well throw it out and start with a new one. Amperage around 90 does sound about right though...

                        Want to know what I do when I have to do a stainless test on pipe that is tig root, hot pass, and then stick fill and cap? I cheat hahahaha. I will fill that **** pipe up as much as I possible can with Tig. I crank the heat to 140+ and slam that rod in there as fast as I can, at least on the bottom half. Cap it out with stick. Its not that I can't do it, I just refuse to do stupid things just because its a rule. I absolutely hate 309 stick rod. It runs great for flat and horizontal but it shouldn't even be considered an all position rod in my opinion.
                        www.silvercreekwelding.com

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                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Assuming it is a SMAW test procedure, my advice would be reduce arc force, increase amperage, 90 degree rod inclination, 45 degree rod to joint angle, a slight arc length to "wash" the inside of the corner out and fill in below, travel steadily in progression up the coupon.

                          My verts usually include a slight but frequent side to side wobble, to flatten the toes to the sides and preventing wagon tracks from a high crown. It's a globular transfer of metal, similar to E7018. Most stuff the rod in which increases amperage reducing voltage forces. Arc force adds amps so the rod burns more metal causing a faster travel reducing penetration in the avoidance of over filling.

                          Just my take on it and I stand corrected in assumption we were talking GTAW.




                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Willvis View Post

                            You are absouletly right and the CWB has got it mastered. Used to be if a guy had his pressure tickets you could weld on pipe brackets no problem. Now suddenly you need a cwb ticket to weld on a bracket? Pressure tickets should override that CWB non-sense but then how would the government make money on all the weld testing? Here's another silly one: Re-testing every 2 years for pressure tickets in Alberta. Now there's another cash grab. So if your doing it day in and day out, you suddenly forget how to weld after 2 years? I like the BC system, keep a log book and all is good. Aren't your first 2 qualifiers on a job going to sort out if you can weld or not anyways. Between all the safety tickets and welding tickets in Alberta a guy probably spend a week out of every year to keep it all active. The price to pay if you want to weld in the oilfield I guess... Pretty hard to keep it all up to date when there's no work there now. Oh, I also had my CWB welding inspector ticket for 6 years and did not use it once. You need to know someone to get into a job. For some reason they prefer to let people with a collage education but no welding experience become inspectors instead of a welder that actually knows what hes doing and looking at.
                            .
                            This was the mentality of many companies years back. Telling their pressure welders that their pressure tickets qualified them to weld to other codes and standards. Truth is being qualified to one code or standard does not qualify you to weld in a different code or standard. As a level 1 inspector I would think you would already understand that? This was merely a company trying to cheat the system. Liabilities have made this practice frowned upon more so these days.
                            The structural CWB tickets are renewed every 2 years also. Doesn’t matter if you weld everyday or not. Pressure tickets in most other provinces are renewed every 2 years also. Weather you weld pipe everyday or
                            not. Alberta requires jman certification in the trade to weld to codes and standards. Most other provinces do not.
                            Pick your province you wish to work in and jump through the hoops that are required to work there. It’s what we do. If you don’t like jumping through hoops to go to work as a welder, it’s time to do something different.
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                            Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52
                            Torchmate CNC table

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                            • #15
                              In 1977, when I received my Journeyman ticket, my final exam was a 2G, 3G, 45, 4G, 3/8" plate, split with root and face bends. 100 question theory exam. The Inter Provincial Red Seal Exam, followed in the afternoon.
                              The Alberta Boiler Safety Association "B" was a 2 part test, 1part theory on the codes and standards of the day, and 1 part practical exam pipe in a 6G, from which 8 coupons were prepped and bent. If you didn't pass theory you didn't do the practical.

                              In a side note, there was a "A" Pressure exam, an all day affair that is now or had become the ABSA 4 papers Welding Examiner Certification.

                              Now I didn't get my "B" until 82. By then, code training was included as a 3rd year component and test when challenging the Journeyman exam, the "B" was a stand alone practical exam for $20 bucks.

                              Willvis mentioned, "
                              I also had my CWB welding inspector ticket for 6 years and did not use it once." , "For some reason they prefer to let people with a collage education but no welding experience become inspectors instead".

                              There's a fine line between the rich and the poor. Memory lane and where that was going suggests they want lots on the bottom, fewer on top. Use it or loose it and if you want to keep using it, it's going to cost you. Almost a tax to work?

                              Snoeproe mentioned, "Truth is being qualified to one code or standard does not qualify you to weld in a different code or standard. ".

                              In the interest of public safety... codes and standards. Which is my dilemma in this conversation. You want to know the difference between a welder and a doctor? One will fix your rear end for $60 bucks. That's the part I don't get?

                              Keep your certification, make me smart because I want a licence to practice.

                              Reciprocity. Back in the day, the plate tests, "CJP's", bend test...I'm speaking out loud, what was that about? If you do some thinking about it, not a stretch to say it was based on AWS pre-qualified testing procedures. It's evolution and dilution. The chain reaction and growth in industry standards. Lol...the world needs more lawyers.

                              They got workers with out the need for education is what happened? Task specific training. You can be a welder if you have a gift, or practice till you pass?
                              If your going to be a CWI, CWB level 1, a Welding Examiner. Looks good on paper. All noble asperations in my books. But we need more welders they say out the sides of the mouth... pay the money, practice till you pass. They create a layer, and promote to fill it.

                              https://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/...3010.42-e.html

                              I'm always amazed at what google finds? But as I was saying...follow the money, think capitalism, and remember the pyramid has a large base. I didn't buy the paper, but I read the books. And I'm part of the base.

                              My Alta. JMan and expired "B" hold little paper weight. They found a cheaper way to get guys to do.
                              Yet the wonderful thing...Equivalencies. Skills are transferable. I'm guessing if Metal Caterpillar puts his mind to it, he'll figure it out. Today a stick test tomorrow all position FCAW.

                              Reminds me of the Star Fish commercial, " Sorry Charlie. We don't want tuna's with good taste, we want tuna's that tastes good.". I think with so many industries with specific needs to be met, they can afford to be choosy on taste. Codes and standards dictate the taste required.


                              When I think of the learning competencies required to run a bead, or those required too decide if it's good enough when applied to codes and standards, it seems to me that the less a welder knows, the greater the need for those who decide if it's good enough? 70% is a pass.

                              A person might wonder why a dog chases it's tail...It could be delight? Or maybe it's trying to catch up because it thinks it's falling behind. Maybe running fast it's trying to get a head? Doesn't a licence to practice seem like a better approach?



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