Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Lincoln Fleetweld 5P compared to 5P+

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • clint738
    replied
    Originally posted by Noel View Post

    While we tend to see steels as steels, matching the rod with consideration towards composition of mechanical and chemical properties yields a better more consistent result. Higher tensile strengths may create a problem if you look past sticking two pieces together. As example, ductility, hardness, impact properties, grain growth, HAZ issues.

    On another note about the 5P compared against the 5P+, with the less aggressive arc of a 5p+, you'll notice less hydrogen build up. Higher strength materials leads to greater concerns about embrittlement and cracking.
    I haven't really taken time to think about the mechanical and chemical properties, but I can see in my case 8010 would certainly be overkill and like you mentioned even though the weld has higher strength, the material will be the weak point.

    I do have to give a big THANK YOU to my local Air Gas. I was pricing out some Fleetweld 6010 5P, but they didn't have it in stock, only the 50lb containers of 5P+ which were priced pretty high at ~$4 / lb. I explained my fondness of the old "red rod" Fleetweld and he offered to give me a box of Radnor 6010 5P red rod to try.

    He said Lincoln makes the rods for Radnor? Can anyone confirm that is true?

    So I drove straight over during lunch break thinking he was going to give me a small 5lb box of Radnor 6010, but turns out he gave me a 10lb box for FREE! On the shelf that would have been like $40 so quite pleased with his willingness to help me out. I do have a small bit of Fleetweld 6010 5P in an airtight container (probably 20 years old) to compare this Radnor 6010 with. I'm looking forward to seeing if I finally found a good source of 6010 red rods, even if it is Radnor. I'll just need to see if it welds the same.

    Has anyone used the Radnor 6010 5P rods? What has been your experience?

    Leave a comment:


  • Noel
    replied
    "Would it be horrible to try to use 7010/8010 rods on rusty materials? I have a feeling they would be fine on maybe pipe and structural welding but just wanted to check the thoughts on the guys here that use the stuff and know what it is best for."

    Nah...not as horrible as you might think. Some where between the farmers field and construction codes is a balance where it's about sticking two pieces together rather then mechanical properties and engineered out comes. A 1/8" 6010 will weld just like a 1/8" 7010 because it's the mechanical properties of the wire that's changed not the flux coating. However...welding two pieces together with a high strength filler just means the material next to it is the weaker link. Part of the reason welds don't break but the material does.

    While we tend to see steels as steels, matching the rod with consideration towards composition of mechanical and chemical properties yields a better more consistent result. Higher tensile strengths may create a problem if you look past sticking two pieces together. As example, ductility, hardness, impact properties, grain growth, HAZ issues.

    6010, to 10010, look at the composition of the elements that create the wire, and compare them to know composition of the materials in higher strength steels for changes.
    Other wise, it could be the weld that fails not the material? A weld that's hard will resist, a weld that soft becomes the crease. It's a bigger picture that I tend to simplify, but I think you get it?

    On another note about the 5P compared against the 5P+, with the less aggressive arc of a 5p+, you'll notice less hydrogen build up. Higher strength materials leads to greater concerns about embrittlement and cracking.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wjz8eh3uxkU

    Now arguable, cellulose is cellulose, but welding parameters, arc lengths, speed of travel, also contribute to this condition. The 6010 cellulose is acidic. It makes gas. 7018 is basic, like a Rolaid's, it neutralizes acids.
    It's as complicated or as simple as you want to make it?

    One thing is certain, acid rich foods are for the young with stronger stomachs, but I do remember days of endless pizza and beer with fondness, just like those 5P. Good luck and remember Rolaids have a purpose like E7018 in acid reduction.

    Leave a comment:


  • clint738
    replied
    Originally posted by griff01 View Post

    In the name of transparency, I learned to weld with the 5P+ which is likely the reason I like it over the 5P.

    Griff
    Griff, see I'm the opposite as I learned to weld with 5P red rod which is why I liked it somewhat over 5P+.
    Also, all our welding trucks (for welding at oil rigs) always had 50lb boxes of Fleetweld 5P in multiple sizes along with several 50lb containers of Excaliber 7018. It was several years before I first saw a 5P+ rod but always stayed with what I knew.

    Hey Noel, that is interesting about the 5P+ being more specific for the inverter technology. I guess that all the more will reinforce my desire to stick with the 5P as I just picked up a round top old Lincoln IdealArc 250 AC/DC over the weekend from my dad and it welded 5P like butter.
    I knew the 7010/8010 are higher tensile strength 70k and 80k, but I wasn't sure of their specific applications?

    Would it be horrible to try to use 7010/8010 rods on rusty materials? I have a feeling they would be fine on maybe pipe and structural welding but just wanted to check the thoughts on the guys here that use the stuff and know what it is best for.

    I am finally no longer confined to my tiny 20' x 20' shop. My new place has a 50' x 20' area I will use to weld in, however, I think the building has structural issues as the roof is framed with 6" c-purlin and some have a bad twist in them.
    So I need to jack up the c-purlin to remove the twist and then box in the purlin and box in the c-purlin trusses to strengthen the roof. Considering running new columns and I-beam to support under the purlins and also serve as a lifting point for a trolley/hoist.

    Lots of projects ahead.

    Leave a comment:


  • Noel
    replied
    Boy oh boy...a memory from the old days of transformer rectifiers. From back in the day when 7 herbs and spices were a salty mix of flavor and the coating crispy.

    The product changed and the reason was inverter technology. Original inverter design was a high frequency AC current that cause the Red Lincoln E6010 to flicker on and off due to no arc stabilizers (potassium) like a E6011. That's the simple story.
    Comparing the two, the red appeared slightly thicker in the coating. Early versions going back in time actually had asbestos which seemed to improve current flow by aiding in the crucible cup as the electrode was consumed. Arc voltage was more aggressive as well with a transformer rectifier and those red rods froze faster with flicking offering a greater weld pool viscosity control over a broader range. More forgiving with less skill need to control them.

    The 5P+ was a product designed for inverter usage with different volt/amp curves. With a lighter coating with increased arc stabilizers added, the arc isn't as aggressive, but still digs, the rod freezes quickly, but appears slightly more fluid, although invertors allow for thickening with arc control, most found the change to be a struggle in relearning how to weld. Controlling the length of arc and amperage had to be to a tighter tolerance.

    An almost moot point is there reduction in moisture content when the box is opened. Changing the formula in the coating had the effect of reducing something to avoid a rod that was to fat in the coating. That is why KFC chicken is almost disappointing these days, but if you grew up not knowing the difference, it still isn't half bad once in a while to eat?


    As far as 7010/8010 goes...that's tensile strength. If they have the red flux coating, I'm almost sure it will be the old recipe. But as time goes by, technology changes, you will find less and less of them around. One day they could be like an old collectible?

    Leave a comment:


  • griff01
    replied
    Originally posted by clint738 View Post
    I'm curious if my local area just never stocks Fleetweld 5P "red rod" or is the stuff just getting harder to find?
    I saw I could order it online at IOC but I don't want 4 - 50lb containers (their minimum order).

    While it has been a while since I compared 5P and 5P+, I do recall somewhere back in my mind I made a note that I liked 5P better than 5P+, but I can't remember why as that has been 20 years ago. I think I saw some 5P+ a few places, but not the regular 5P red rod.

    What are the thoughts on this forum about the 2 rods, only considering Lincoln rods here.

    The application is rusted materials, pipe welding, structural.

    I saw some 7010 and 8010 rods from online retailers, but have never used those rods. How similar would they be to 5P and can they be used in the same applications?

    Thanks!
    To me, the slag is easier to clean off when using the 5P+. I have used both, however, I prefer the 5P+.
    In the name of transparency, I learned to weld with the 5P+ which is likely the reason I like it over the 5P.

    Griff

    Leave a comment:


  • clint738
    started a topic Lincoln Fleetweld 5P compared to 5P+

    Lincoln Fleetweld 5P compared to 5P+

    I'm curious if my local area just never stocks Fleetweld 5P "red rod" or is the stuff just getting harder to find?
    I saw I could order it online at IOC but I don't want 4 - 50lb containers (their minimum order).

    While it has been a while since I compared 5P and 5P+, I do recall somewhere back in my mind I made a note that I liked 5P better than 5P+, but I can't remember why as that has been 20 years ago. I think I saw some 5P+ a few places, but not the regular 5P red rod.

    What are the thoughts on this forum about the 2 rods, only considering Lincoln rods here.

    The application is rusted materials, pipe welding, structural.

    I saw some 7010 and 8010 rods from online retailers, but have never used those rods. How similar would they be to 5P and can they be used in the same applications?

    Thanks!
Working...
X