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  • Stick electrode brands.

    Hey all,

    By now I've probably introduced myself as the local incompetent idiot with no welding ability or idea what i'm doing. So please be patient...

    I've been using Hobart 6011 for a little while, while being tempted by Lincoln Fleetweld at Home Depot. These are pretty much the only options I have found, other than ordering in Forney brand stuff which I am strongly prejudiced against. This video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZVkJdUhIP8 suggests that the Lincoln 5P+ is much stronger under severe shock loading than the Hobart, potentially also stronger in general. However, I am reluctant to put much faith in this test because of the tiny sample sizes, the lack of accounting for potential variation between batches, and the wide variety of loading conditions not considered.

    Do the people here who actually know something have an opinion on choosing a stick electrode brand? More important, do you have a mail-order source for these rods? Like I said the local welding supply scene is not great at all. I've checked Cyberweld, Welding Supplies from IOC, but not found a great selection anywhere.

    Thanks!

  • #2
    I love the 5P+. It's one of my favorite rods to burn. I keep it in stock and plenty of it. I used some today in fact. I keep 3/32 and 1/8 on hand.

    I have no doubt you can get it on amazon, but my LWS has tons of it...literally...so I can get as much as I need. And it's a 6010, not a 6011, so if you're running a buzz box or an inverter that can't handle a cellulose rod, it won't matter much because it's not going to work well under those conditions.

    On other rods, I prefer...Lincoln Excalibur 7018 and esab atom arc 7018. I keep both of those in 3/32 and 1/8 in the rod oven at all times.

    I like to get some of that down hill low hydrogen Lincoln sells and give it a go. It's expensive and hard to find around here. It usually takes this area a few decades to catch up to the trends, so it'll be a while.

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    • #3
      Esab for 7018. Dont care for lincolns 7018 at all. Lincoln 6p+ for 6010, its the industry standard, not even sure Ive used any other brand of 6010 much. Stick with any of the name brands and you'll be fine. Lincoln, esab, hobart, bohler all should be good. Just dont use any of that farmer rod, 6013. I honestly dont even know why they make that crap
      www.silvercreekwelding.com

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      • #4
        I know why...it's cheap and they can sell it because it's cheap.

        As far as Lincoln 7018, there is a difference in the "Excalibur" line of rods vs their normal 7018. But by and large, I wouldn't buy any 7018 that doesn't come in a sealed can. If it's in a plastic box on the shelf of tractor supply, I'm out.

        7014 is another rod I keep on hand. It doesn't require the stabilization issues of a low hydrogen rod and it does exceedingly well when welding on steel that has been galvanized. The arc characteristics are similar to that of 7018, but different enough that you'll have to adjust your settings.

        Honestly 6013 is good for nothing but running practice beads in the flat position. So maybe that's why they make it.

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        • #5
          Gotta disagree with Ryan here, I like the 7018 sold by Tractor supply which is Hobart at least in my area. Note that it is the regular 7018 not the 7018ac. It's in a plastic box and I do no x-ray stuff so it works fine for me. Once you open a hermetically sealed box it's only supposed to be ok for a few hours unless it goes in an oven.
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          • #6
            "Do the people here who actually know something have an opinion on choosing a stick electrode brand?"

            Yes. Some will give that opinion based on personal preference due to brand loyalty, rather drive a Chev then push a Ford kind of thing? Other will choose based on cost and availability...7-11 on every corner, is Star Bucks really serving better coffee across town? Others will choose because of a perceived benefit...additions of Cobalt in coatings allows higher currents with less coating deterioration?

            Truth...if it has a AWS spec it meets a standard. It will meet specs for a lot of things, but in simple terms it doesn't mean you can't enhance the recipe to sell a product.
            5P+ is a good example.

            Not to get too far off topic, but it's not all simple either. You have to understand power source currents and characteristics ( AC/DC, DCEN, DCEP, Invertor /transformer rectifier design), coating types ( Rutile, Cellulose, Basic, Iron Powder), arc characteristics (Soft? Medium? Aggressive and why?), not to mention usability ( when, where, why and how).

            "However, I am reluctant to put much faith in this test because of the tiny sample sizes, the lack of accounting for potential variation between batches, and the wide variety of loading conditions not considered."

            Smarter then you look if your thinking like that. Good for you. AWS standards identify with their stamp of certification approval meeting slag system composition, mechanical/chemical properties amongst other things. It levels the playing field toward product consistency.

            If one manufacture or another chooses to change the recipe, adding extra herbs and spices, or double dipping the chicken in coating before hitting the deep fryer, it easy to see why buddies comparison was slightly flawed. But AWS says, it better be chicken not pigeon.

            60,000 psi. That's a pull test. It also measure elongation, yield strength, and giving indications toward other mechanical properties. Hardness and ductility come to mind?
            Point I'm trying to make is this...AWS say it's chicken, what you choose to do with it can end up being a good meal or burnt bird?

            For the record... if your not taking into account mechanical properties, slag systems, concerns of static or dynamic loads, it's as simple as are you joining two pieces together? Does it hold? If you answer yes, your winning.

            Do people really make money posting these videos? If they do, I might just have to rethink this retirement thing?

            Now, having said that...all of that, I too disagree with the comments directed to rutile coated electrodes. While E6012 wasn't mentioned, E6013, E7014 were slagged heavy early on (pun intended).
            That's the equal to saying, I prefer Coke over Pepsi mixed with rum, which is a better choice but...it's an opinion based on limited understanding with explanation why? If I'm looking to get a rum buzz orange juice would work as well mixed in wouldn't it?

            It is good for 60 or 70,000 psi tensile? Is it not strong enough?

            The slag system is viscous due to increasing high iron power content from the E6013 to E7014 and harder to puddle manage but they are all position rods just the same? So is the problem the rod or the operator?

            They also are the basis for slag in flux core wire development, with basic low hydrogen coatings so what is the real problem with them?

            The problem is, if you look closely at the fine print, they don't elongate as far when stretched. Not as ductile. They don't handle fatigue strains as well. And they require a closer effort to manage the puddle in a viscous state being not as forgiving with excessive amps, arc lengths or travel speeds and movement in motion.

            One man's opinion. But in the bigger picture...if your going to compare one rod to another, make it a comparison based on reason rather then opinion. If the reason is you want the best in mechanical properties, subjectively easier to use, you have a DC machine...E7018 is a solid choice for those reasons. Which is a better brand...that's opinion.


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            • #7
              I can say I've never ran the Hobart plastic box stuff, so I can't comment on how it lays down. For me, I do have a rod oven, so I use it. Lately I've been doing a lot of work on heavy trucks, so non-stabilized 7018 would not be something I'd use for that type of work. But if someone uses it for odds-n-ends, then yes, that type of rod is probably just fine.


              Maybe I'll go grab a box and see how it runs...MMW, I'm not against change. I'll give her a go.

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              • #8
                Thanks Noel for the detailed and informative reply! So far my reason has been that I live an hour closer to Hobart than Lincoln filler rods, plus the Hobarts come in a case that protects them better. Plus my welding skills are so lacking that any difference between brands is probably not significant. However, as I (hopefully) get better this will (hopefully) change. All my stick work so far has been with 6011 because I've been working with lots of painted and/or rusty metal, plus I don't have a rod oven to properly store 7018. When I have a clean surface and need the ease of use, greater ductility, and strength of 7018 I use GMAW and the ubiquitous ER70-S6 wire, which is reputed (https://forum.millerwelds.com/forum/...598#post445598) to have quite similar material properties and, being MIG, is closer to my non-existent skill level.

                I really would like to be laying down x-ray quality welds every single time; hopefully as my skills improve the quality of the rod itself will matter more. Though the discussion here suggests that most major brands work well when used by a competent weldor.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Lewis Hein View Post
                  Thanks Noel for the detailed and informative reply! So far my reason has been that I live an hour closer to Hobart than Lincoln filler rods, plus the Hobarts come in a case that protects them better. Plus my welding skills are so lacking that any difference between brands is probably not significant. However, as I (hopefully) get better this will (hopefully) change. All my stick work so far has been with 6011 because I've been working with lots of painted and/or rusty metal, plus I don't have a rod oven to properly store 7018. When I have a clean surface and need the ease of use, greater ductility, and strength of 7018 I use GMAW and the ubiquitous ER70-S6 wire, which is reputed (https://forum.millerwelds.com/forum/...598#post445598) to have quite similar material properties and, being MIG, is closer to my non-existent skill level.

                  I really would like to be laying down x-ray quality welds every single time; hopefully as my skills improve the quality of the rod itself will matter more. Though the discussion here suggests that most major brands work well when used by a competent weldor.
                  You know Lewis, if you got something or get something from my replies...it would both surprise and amuse me. Hearing it suggests it was worth my effort to do so.
                  Frankly, you'd learn with us or with out us because your interested. We couldn't stop that. That's a good thing.
                  And that E6011, use it. Nothing wrong with it. Fast freeze, AC/DC, deep penetrating and good for 60 thousand pounds for square inch of tensile pull strength. And It's as good as any for x ray quality. Clean is clean.

                  Speaking of X ray quality...not as many welds get x rayed as you might think? And while it does bring indication to weld metal cleanliness, it won't expose mechanical/chemical weld metal defect. Grain structures and brittleness, that sort of thing?

                  Don't get me going on E7018 storage. But if you do some back reading, I was the guy who said you probably don't need an oven?
                  ER70S-6 and E7018. If one of those was a sheet and the other a quilt, how do you think you'd feel waking up in the morning when the alarm went off? That may help to explain some of what you read for the differences. Then again...?

                  Keep a 60,000 pound strain on.

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