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Welding a shaft close to unremovable rubber that cannot get hot.

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  • Welding a shaft close to unremovable rubber that cannot get hot.

    Considering submerging the rubber portion in water to keep it cool while welding, never done it before. Will be welding 1/4" away but not wet ?? Any reason for concern. There is a very long way around not doing this but this projects keeps breeding more projects so rather nip it in the butt with this idea if nobody thinks it is an issue.
    Miller Dynasty 300 DX TR, 2007
    Miller MM 251 w/30A spool gun, 2005
    Lincoln SP-100, 1990
    Hypertherm PM 45, 2014
    Scotchman 5014CM Ironworker 2005
    Grizzly 12x36 lathe 2010
    Wilton Belt sander and Cutoff Bandsaw 2006

  • #2
    At 1/4" away I don't see it.

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    • #3
      I actually did a test similar to what you're planning one time, just to see what would happen. Here's what I did:

      Took a 1" bolt, slid a piece of heat shrink around it leaving just enough for the nut to come flush with the end of the bolt. Wrapped a piece of copper wire around the head end of the bolt for a ground and sank the bolt to the bottom of the nut in a plastic beer cup full of water so the heat shrink was completely submerged, than I tig welded the nut to the end of the bolt. If the intent was to not catch the heat shrink on fire, then it was successful. Granted, I was using something made to shrink with the heat, which it did, partially. Water notwithstanding.

      Without knowing what you're doing, I'd be hesitant. If there's a long, hard way to obtain an acceptable result, that may be best. The hard right over the easy wrong my old battalion chief would say. He was pretty much all the time.

      But hey man, sounds like fun, I hope it works out for you! Maybe someone else here has done something like this and has a better answer.

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      • #4
        What is the material and diameter of the shaft? Can you post a photo?

        Look at THIS
        Richard

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        • #5
          It is a stock steering shaft for my race car. I am trying to protect the rubber rag joint as I have to lengthen it after a rack relocation. I need to cut the .125 wall tubing off a 3/16" stamping and then weld in a new section. New aftermarket is $300 and this newer car shaft is no longer servicable and is made of of pressed pins and staked into place after assembly. When I said there is a long way around, It is not better and also unkonown how or what it will takem, but a lot of time fore sure. it is my parts so time is free but with that said I would rather the assy. was as is rather than a hodge podge of misc. bolts and pins to once again avoud welding. I was planning to tig it in maybe 4 steps after 4 previous tacks letting it cool each time. like all rag joints It had built in safeties for failure and would like it all original other than the added 1.5". Unfortunately there is just this one good spot to do the lengthening. A used stock replacement is only $80 to get me back to where I am now if needed.
          Miller Dynasty 300 DX TR, 2007
          Miller MM 251 w/30A spool gun, 2005
          Lincoln SP-100, 1990
          Hypertherm PM 45, 2014
          Scotchman 5014CM Ironworker 2005
          Grizzly 12x36 lathe 2010
          Wilton Belt sander and Cutoff Bandsaw 2006

          Comment


          • #6
            Here is a pic of the shaft in the car still
            Attached Files
            Miller Dynasty 300 DX TR, 2007
            Miller MM 251 w/30A spool gun, 2005
            Lincoln SP-100, 1990
            Hypertherm PM 45, 2014
            Scotchman 5014CM Ironworker 2005
            Grizzly 12x36 lathe 2010
            Wilton Belt sander and Cutoff Bandsaw 2006

            Comment


            • #7
              Is it just mild steel?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by ryanjones2150 View Post
                Is it just mild steel?
                Yes, I am sure it is
                Miller Dynasty 300 DX TR, 2007
                Miller MM 251 w/30A spool gun, 2005
                Lincoln SP-100, 1990
                Hypertherm PM 45, 2014
                Scotchman 5014CM Ironworker 2005
                Grizzly 12x36 lathe 2010
                Wilton Belt sander and Cutoff Bandsaw 2006

                Comment


                • #9
                  For what it's worth, I'd give you two options. Option A, drill out the two rivets to be replaced with bolts, weld it up and call it a day. Option B, just weld it. 3-4 short bursts, cool with compressed air or a wet towel. I'm assuming your going to use GMAW? Or you thinking this would be a good spot to practice GTAW?
                  You could wrap the wet towel, with a worry about radiant energy or conducted heat melting the rubber if you didn't want to drill out rivets and use bolts, but then thinking about the process chosen for welding, you will have to decide which you're better able to control, heat input and spread to avoid melting the rubber rag joint?
                  IMO, GTAW will melt it medium well quick enough, wet rag considered.

                  Now if it was stainless, you want to go with GTAW pretty, I'd go with A. That's what I'd do.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I would bevel it, tack it, then get a spray bottle with water. Then I would weld a small portion, say about a third. Then hit it with compressed air until I could touch it momentarily bare handed. Then spin it and weld on the opposite side, repeating the process. If the rag joint got too hot then hit it with the spray bottle and then the air. You don't want steam happening immediately adjacent to (or in) your welding if at all possible.
                    With mig I doubt it will get all that hot by skipping.
                    I have to do this kind of crap every day, and it's how I roll...….ymmv

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                    Miller Dynasty 700...OH YEA BABY!!
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                    Miller Dynasty 200 DX "Blue Lightning"

                    Miller Bobcat 225 NT (what I began my present Biz with!)
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                    Miller Spectrum 300
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                    • #11
                      Well, now that we have a picture...

                      Where is the weld going? Is this 1/4" away through the air or through steel?

                      Lots of cars have these "rag joints" assembled with bolts instead of rivets. So removing the rivets may may this job easier, and then replace them with bolts.

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                      • #12
                        You guys wouldn't be worried about creating brittle areas around the welds by quenching it? I have never sprayed water on mild steel because I had been under the impression that it could cause cracking in and around the welds. Now if it was stainless, I have sprayed water on that a good bit.

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                        • #13
                          Yeah, I'm in the "drill the rivets out and replace with bolts" camp.

                          https://www.samarins.com/glossary/im...oint-large.jpg

                          Honda uses these things. I'd be more inclined to completely remove that rubber coupler and use something entirely more robust.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ryanjones2150 View Post
                            You guys wouldn't be worried about creating brittle areas around the welds by quenching it? I have never sprayed water on mild steel because I had been under the impression that it could cause cracking in and around the welds. Now if it was stainless, I have sprayed water on that a good bit.
                            On mild I never worry

                            www.facebook.com/outbackaluminumwelding
                            Miller Dynasty 700...OH YEA BABY!!
                            MM 350P...PULSE SPRAYIN' MONSTER
                            Miller Dynasty 280 with AC independent expansion card
                            Miller Dynasty 200 DX "Blue Lightning"

                            Miller Bobcat 225 NT (what I began my present Biz with!)
                            Miller 30-A Spoolgun
                            Miller WC-115-A
                            Miller Spectrum 300
                            Miller 225 Thunderbolt (my first machine bought new 1980)
                            Miller Digital Elite Titanium 9400

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I'm no metallurgist, but I've never cracked mild steel welds by quenching it.

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