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Mig welding Aluminum plate to cast Al

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  • #16
    Originally posted by FusionKing View Post
    ...And just so you know 4943 actually lists wheels right on the box!!
    Chilly. 4943 it is, then.
    Stopped by the local Miller dealer yesterday to verify that he carries 4943, but he didn't have any in stock due to a rush on the stuff recently, and he didn't have the correct drive roll. Plenty of online places to procure a roller.

    Picked up two junk, cast scooter wheels and other pieces yesterday, so I'll be an experimenting fool for a few, at least with the .035" 4043 I have laying around. Probably will work like crap because it's been in the spool gun for who-knows-how-long, but perhaps still good practice.
    Was able to adjust the spool gun to spit out the 4043 well enough with the .030" drive roll.

    Anyway, thank you all for all the info. Very much appreciated!

    Comment


    • #17
      You're welcome!!
      Now keep us posted on the progress

      www.facebook.com/outbackaluminumwelding
      Miller Dynasty 700...OH YEA BABY!!
      MM 350P...PULSE SPRAYIN' MONSTER
      Miller Dynasty 280 with AC independent expansion card
      Miller Dynasty 200 DX "Blue Lightning"

      Miller Bobcat 225 NT (what I began my present Biz with!)
      Miller 30-A Spoolgun
      Miller WC-115-A
      Miller Spectrum 300
      Miller 225 Thunderbolt (my first machine bought new 1980)
      Miller Digital Elite Titanium 9400

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      • #18
        Every cast aluminum wheel I've welded on, granted I tig welded them, I have never had a problem. At least nothing like the problems one can imagine with typical cast aluminum. Maybe cast aluminum wheels are just made with a better material. I have no idea, that's just a guess. I've also never welding on a scooter wheel.

        Comment


        • #19
          When choosing a filler for spoolgun work you really must consider how much base metal dilution you can mix with the filler. Since there is little with mig alum 4043 would be a disastrous choice as it is highly dependent on the alloys in the cast for strength buildup. Not so with 5356 but way too much porosity will result from spoolgun welding on alum cast. Therefore the best compromise is 4943, which is not dependent on base metal dilution for strength, and the generous amount of silicon holds down the porosity. 4943 was developed with this conundrum in mind. I have been phasing out 4043 altogether since 4943 came out. It really is a wonder filler.
          Nothing welded, Nothing gained

          Miller Dynasty700DX
          3 ea. Miller Dynasty350DX
          Miller Dynasty200DX
          ThermalArc 400 GTSW
          MillerMatic350P
          MillerMatic200 with spoolgun
          MKCobraMig260
          Lincoln SP-170T
          Linde UCC305 (sold 2011)
          Hypertherm 1250
          Hypertherm 800
          PlasmaCam CNC cutter
          Fadal Toolroom CNC Mill
          SiberHegner CNC Mill
          2 ea. Bridgeport
          LeBlond 15" Lathe
          Haberle 18" Cold Saw
          Doringer 14" Cold Saw
          6 foot x 12 foot Mojave granite

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          • #20
            Thank you Shovelon for expounding on the details. I was thinking of using 5356 filler on the 0.25" 5052 plate (rolled ring and side plates) and 4943 on the ring and cast wheel, but looks like I can use 4943 for all the welds. (I think)

            I haven't assembled all the materials yet, but will be messing with assorted cast scrap today with 4043 since that's what I have at this moment. 4943 is on it's way along with 5052 plate.
            I'll keep you posted on my progress and results.

            Reel fun.

            Comment


            • #21
              4943 and 4043 weld very much alike Doug due to the high sillycon content. Interesting history of 4043 and 4047 is that they both started off as brazing fillers. The flow characteristics were paramount. Although I am phasing out 4043 in favor of 4943 I still use 4047 to patch porosity on dressed joints before polish.
              Nothing welded, Nothing gained

              Miller Dynasty700DX
              3 ea. Miller Dynasty350DX
              Miller Dynasty200DX
              ThermalArc 400 GTSW
              MillerMatic350P
              MillerMatic200 with spoolgun
              MKCobraMig260
              Lincoln SP-170T
              Linde UCC305 (sold 2011)
              Hypertherm 1250
              Hypertherm 800
              PlasmaCam CNC cutter
              Fadal Toolroom CNC Mill
              SiberHegner CNC Mill
              2 ea. Bridgeport
              LeBlond 15" Lathe
              Haberle 18" Cold Saw
              Doringer 14" Cold Saw
              6 foot x 12 foot Mojave granite

              Comment


              • #22
                Ok guys.
                This weekend was a bust for welding. The goats are due for kidding, and I had to build some shelters quickly.
                Ordered 4943 and 5356 fillers in 0.035" and they're on the way. Plenty of tips and the new roller drive are here, as is the SS wire wheel. Got some 6061-T6 0.25" bar stock to mess with.
                Questions:
                Reading some of Ed Craig's Al welding propaganda...
                He hints that a higher amperage at start can be a good thing on thicker aluminum ( > 6mm) and that includes 0.25" stuff. He also hints at higher run-in speed (higher amperage). Unknowingly, I set my spool gun run-in at 50% of welding wire speed. Haven't tried that yet, but it may be best to use something like 110% or higher (up to 150% on my MM 251) for the initial zap. Perhaps will help with less burn-back and gratuitous tip-welding as well.

                Another tip Edward got me thinking about is the possibility of adding a start tab and an end tab (extra pieces of Al material preceding and following a weld) so to reduce cracking and cratering, and promote weld penetration at the beginning of the permanent weld. The tabs would be cut off afterwards.

                He also indicated that .045 wire is best for 0.25" base material ( >6mm), as I've seen in most other references.

                http://www.weldreality.com/aluminum-welding-2.htm

                ALSO.... I found a handy-dandy Hobart/Maxal filler chart (finally) that I hadn't found in all my other multitudes of searches.

                http://www.hobartbrothers.com/downlo...ler__eNttQ.pdf

                Here, the chart indicates that for 5052 to 5052 welds, especially for fillets, 5556 or 5183 are the most recommended, and 5356 is ok, too. 4943 is given a poor grade for sheer strength. 5556 and 5183 are hard to find, so the 5356 will be fine. I'm kinda concerned about the sheer strength between the 5052 ring (0.25" thick,6" wide, 42" circumference, -13" OD) and the two 5052 side plates (0.25" thick, +13" ID, 22"OD), and since fillets are more apt to fail than the base, 5356 may be the better choice here.

                HOWEVER, for welding cast Al to 5052, 4943 filler is highly suggested.

                Hope I'm not overthinking this. Just want the first attempt (after practice) to be the last attempt with good results.
                Suggestions, criticism, anything?
                Thanks!
                -doug

                -One of our does had two healthy newborn kids just an hour ago!
                Last edited by DougM; 02-27-2018, 06:18 AM.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by DougM View Post
                  Ok guys.
                  This weekend was a bust for welding. The goats are due for kidding, and I had to build some shelters quickly.
                  Ordered 4943 and 5356 fillers in 0.035" and they're on the way. Plenty of tips and the new roller drive are here, as is the SS wire wheel. Got some 6061-T6 0.25" bar stock to mess with.
                  Questions:
                  Reading some of Ed Craig's Al welding propaganda...
                  He hints that a higher amperage at start can be a good thing on thicker aluminum ( > 6mm) and that includes 0.25" stuff. He also hints at higher run-in speed (higher amperage). Unknowingly, I set my spool gun run-in at 50% of welding wire speed. Haven't tried that yet, but it may be best to use something like 110% or higher (up to 150% on my MM 251) for the initial zap. Perhaps will help with less burn-back and gratuitous tip-welding as well.

                  Another tip Edward got me thinking about is the possibility of adding a start tab and an end tab (extra pieces of Al material preceding and following a weld) so to reduce cracking and cratering, and promote weld penetration at the beginning of the permanent weld. The tabs would be cut off afterwards.

                  He also indicated that .045 wire is best for 0.25" base material ( >6mm), as I've seen in most other references.

                  http://www.weldreality.com/aluminum-welding-2.htm

                  ALSO.... I found a handy-dandy Hobart/Maxal filler chart (finally) that I hadn't found in all my other multitudes of searches.

                  http://www.hobartbrothers.com/downlo...ler__eNttQ.pdf

                  Here, the chart indicates that for 5052 to 5052 welds, especially for fillets, 5556 or 5183 are the most recommended, and 5356 is ok, too. 4943 is given a poor grade for sheer strength. 5556 and 5183 are hard to find, so the 5356 will be fine. I'm kinda concerned about the sheer strength between the 5052 ring (0.25" thick,6" wide, 42" circumference, -13" OD) and the two 5052 side plates (0.25" thick, +13" ID, 22"OD), and since fillets are more apt to fail than the base, 5356 may be the better choice here.

                  HOWEVER, for welding cast Al to 5052, 4943 filler is highly suggested.

                  Hope I'm not overthinking this. Just want the first attempt (after practice) to be the last attempt with good results.
                  Suggestions, criticism, anything?
                  Thanks!
                  -doug

                  -One of our does had two healthy newborn kids just an hour ago!


                  Yes (you are overthinking now)
                  Instead, keep reading and learning and retain all these good facts. Get your stuff all working and then play with it all.
                  I have read all Ed says and that is all pretty good for thought.
                  This isn't the space shuttle and you're not an aerospace welder. Keep it simple
                  But stick to your plan!!! Weld scrap and get good. Then prep parts and use 4943.

                  Welding is a lot like gunslinging.......about the time you think you're good, some Hick [email protected] steps out of a dark alley and makes you look like a beginner.

                  www.facebook.com/outbackaluminumwelding
                  Miller Dynasty 700...OH YEA BABY!!
                  MM 350P...PULSE SPRAYIN' MONSTER
                  Miller Dynasty 280 with AC independent expansion card
                  Miller Dynasty 200 DX "Blue Lightning"

                  Miller Bobcat 225 NT (what I began my present Biz with!)
                  Miller 30-A Spoolgun
                  Miller WC-115-A
                  Miller Spectrum 300
                  Miller 225 Thunderbolt (my first machine bought new 1980)
                  Miller Digital Elite Titanium 9400

                  Comment

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