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Syncrowave 300 Gas Control Issues Replacement Relays and Circuit Availability???

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  • #31
    10 amps is fine. I think it's a Miller misprint.

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    • #32
      Yes, we're enjoying some of that zero stuff here in upstate NY also. High tomorrow 2, high Saturday potentially 0 or below. Nightly lows well below zero. Wind chills -30 and lower. I only go out to the shop to check that the furnace is still working!

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      • #33
        Hello guys. I just got done reading this thread and am wondering what the outcome was. I am experiencing the same issue with my syncrowave 300 as well. With the machine ON regardless of pedal position the gas comes on and never shuts off. You turn the machine off the valve closes and gas stops. I have pulled the PC2 card out marked with 052-790 but not sure where to go from there. I did pull the plastic covers off of the 3 relays on the board and the relays are not stuck and move by hand. (not to say they are not working electronically) I am relatively electronic savy if i could get a little troubleshooting in the right direction that would be great! Thanks in advance

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        • #34
          alienturtle, my apologies for the long delay. The welder has been put on hold since my full time job has been consuming most of my time (gotta pay the bills) I was hoping to hear more from Aeronca41as it sounds like he is very active on this site and knows his stuff. Here is where I am. I ordered the 3 relays mention in #30 of this post and installed them back in January. This seemed to fix the constant flow problem for a while then it started to act up (flow continuously) intermittently. I ended up on this site again last night looking for answers after using the welder and have constant flow. Work again rears it ugly head so I will not be able to dig into the welder until the end of this month. I will try to keep the post alive with progress.
          Last edited by WallyW; 08-13-2018, 08:26 AM.

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          • #35
            I'll reach out to Wayne and see what his status is, haven't heard from him in a while.

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            • #36
              WallyW,, very sorry to leave you hanging all this time. Got a note from Ryan yesterday on this topic; he's a great guy!

              My wife went down hill rapidly in late winter/early spring, and finally passed away a couple of months ago. I have been up to my ears in resolving all of the financial and legal stuff, and now have to sort out and give away or sell her rather considerable collection "tools" for cake decorating, sewing, crafts, artwork, etc., not to mention a rather large inventory of medical supplies. Not a simple, or easy task....I sure do miss her, but she is safely home in heaven with our Lord. I have also been travelling about 7 hours every couple of weeks to help out with my aging mom, so not much time for welding or internet. Will try to get some time early next week to work my way back through this thread and see if I can be any help. Hang in there.

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              • #37
                Kept you in my thoughts and prayers since we spoke that day back in the spring, my friend. Wish I was closer and could lend a hand.

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                • #38
                  Aeronca41, I am sorry for your loss ... nothing is more important than family. I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers. Please do not hurry on account, as I said work has been taking me away from home often lately. I leave again for a 3 week test trip to the Arizona desert. As I said before I value your input but don't hurry through these important tasks.
                  Thank you!

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                  • #39
                    Wally, Ryan, thanks for your thoughts and prayers. Much appreciated.

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                    • #40
                      Hello All, involved in this post
                      I want to send a heart felt message to Aeronca41, for the your loss of your wife
                      I can’t even start to imagine the struggles that you have been through, including the car accident that your daughter was involved in
                      Im sure I am not alone to say that life is so uncertain and with close family members, how can anyone not worry daily for those so near to us
                      So my question is, has anyone been able to make any progress on their machines?
                      I am currently is a similar place as some of you, I have the whole top side of my 300 and am going through all of the components for a check and clean
                      The three relays in the CR2 board are pitted with a fair amount of smoke inside the covers
                      I plan to locate these today
                      On my PC1 board, I have a regulator located at VR51, that has burnt the underside of the board, will replace that also
                      My main issues have been narrowed down to a possible weak link in the HF transformer, or the capacitors
                      I can weld with HF start for maybe 20-30 minutes until the frequency completely goes away and I have to use a lift arc
                      Come back the next day, and it does it all over again
                      Im also going to do some rerouting of the wiring and location of the CR 1-2 relays to give more protection from the elements
                      Ill keep an eye out to see if anyone has progressed and I can share my progress over the next few days

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                      • #41
                        dt38k,
                        I still am having the issue of the gas not shutting off ... it doesn't do it everytime but it happens more often than it works correctly. I am still looking for help. I have even considered buying a new machine. As I mentioned earlier, I do travel for work so I have not spent much time in the shop lately. Please keep us informed on your progress. Again mine is just the gas flow issue, HF seems to function well.
                        Thank you,
                        WallyW

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                        • #42
                          Hi, Wally. Sorry to have disappeared for so long. My trips to help out with my mom's care became every other week for most of the rest of 2018, and I was sometimes at her place for several weeks at a time. She passed away in February, and I'm the trustee of her estate, so once again I have had little time for welding and welders. Think we may have a buyer for the house on the line, but still dealing with the IRS who says she didn't pay her taxes for almost 20 years (I have copies of all of her returns since the 1940s) and as trustee, I'd better pay up or else! I think that is now (finally) put to bed. Now dealing with the state inheritance tax issues for the estate, and fighting the medical bills, that all seem to be produced and managed by people who never got past second or third grade. I like welding and welders way more!
                          I'll try to sit down Friday or Saturday and dig through this thread and get back up to speed. Your problem is probably easier than dt38k's.
                          Last edited by Aeronca41; 07-11-2019, 08:49 PM.

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                          • #43
                            Aeronca41,
                            Your help is appreciated very much! However family matters always come first. Thank you again, ​​​​​​​WallyW

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                            • #44
                              Just spent some time studying the schematics. Please read the following carefully (to see if I'm "getting it") and correct me where I'm wrong. You found no voltage at pins A and B of CR2, and yet gas was still flowing. You replaced CR2 and the "gas staying on" problem went away. However, now you have no post-flow. You are confident the CR2 replacement you got is the correct part. You have worked the post-flow control back and forth from end to end 25 or 50 times to clean it up. If that's not correct., or missing something, please explain.

                              I suspect the problem is on PC1; sure wish I had your board and a Huntron Tracker, but a good Tracker runs from 1 to 3 grand; there are smaller ones of unknown state on ebay, but I'm wary of those. I have a design to build a very similar device for under a hundred bucks out of my shelves of scrounged parts, but that has to wait for winter when I'm done with all the outdoor stuff that's been piling up for years while caring for my wife and my mom.

                              As to the relay question, I would agree with whomever else said the 10A ones will work OK. My only concern is that one of them (CR50, I think) feeds the primary of the HF generation transformer and may have been upsized to deal with any HF coupling back to the primary. I have no experience with HF in welders other than as a user; all my HF experience is with radio and radar transmitters, which use nothing like a spark gap (except for Mr. Marconi and Mr. Tesla in the very early days--I'm old, but not THAT old). So, I'm the proverbial babe in the woods with welder HF generation and it's implications to surrounding circuitry; I just don't have the experience to know. Maybe someone who is a real welder expert can comment.

                              Please confirm you have no adjustable preflow, no spot timer, and no pulser optiopns on your machine.

                              I do see a suspicious tantalum capacitor on Parts List page 17, C52. As I mentioned in another thread this week, those things are notorious failure points, and I replace them all in any old equipment I repair. You can get them at Allied, Mouser, Digi-Key, TEDSS, etc--any of the electronics supply houses. No guarantees, but while you're fixing this thing, I'd replace it. It is rated at 5.6 microfarads, 35 volts DC. Since it appears to be in a timing circuit, I would try to get that actual value, but at a higher voltage rating like 50 VDC. Their weak point is the slightest overvoltage from a glitch of any kind turns them into the "walking wounded" and from there on its just a matter of time til they go. Putting in one with a higher voltage rating gives a little headroom. Be careful--they are polarity sensitive, and will blow up with a bang if you put 'em in backwards ( and occasionally even if you do everything right). Wear eye protection.

                              This is made a bit more complex in that there is a wire or two shown on some of the more detailed schematics in the manual that don't seem to show up on the main diagram, or at least I haven't found 'em yet. But, lets get a baseline of the problem, and see if we can figure it out. Sorry this is taking so very long.

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                              • #45
                                Aeronca41,

                                I am reposting your comments and adding my answers in BOLD.

                                This is my busy travel season again (work) ... on the upside I am still working (not yet retired ... almost did this year but decided to stay a few more years) so I still have access to TIG machines.

                                So currently even after replacing all the relays on board p/n 052 791 and CR2 I find myself back at square one with the gas flowing constantly more often than working correctly

                                I will look into the tantalum capacitor (Parts List page 17, C52) as soon as I return home.

                                Thank you again for your time!
                                Wally

                                Just spent some time studying the schematics. Please read the following carefully (to see if I'm "getting it") and correct me where I'm wrong. You found no voltage at pins A and B of CR2, and yet gas was still flowing. This statement is correct
                                You replaced CR2 and the "gas staying on" problem went away. However, now you have no post-flow. You are confident the CR2 replacement you got is the correct part. You have worked the post-flow control back and forth from end to end 25 or 50 times to clean it up. If that's not correct., or missing something, please explain. When I instllalled the CR2 relay gas flow was contored by the pedal with no post flow but as in post #24 the same happened when I reinstalled the original CR2 relay (the gas not shutting off has always been an intermittent problem) And I did ‘exercise” the post flow control.

                                I suspect the problem is on PC1; sure wish I had your board and a Huntron Tracker, but a good Tracker runs from 1 to 3 grand; there are smaller ones of unknown state on ebay, but I'm wary of those. I have a design to build a very similar device for under a hundred bucks out of my shelves of scrounged parts, but that has to wait for winter when I'm done with all the outdoor stuff that's been piling up for years while caring for my wife and my mom.

                                As to the relay question, I would agree with whomever else said the 10A ones will work OK. My only concern is that one of them (CR50, I think) feeds the primary of the HF generation transformer and may have been upsized to deal with any HF coupling back to the primary. I have no experience with HF in welders other than as a user; all my HF experience is with radio and radar transmitters, which use nothing like a spark gap (except for Mr. Marconi and Mr. Tesla in the very early days--I'm old, but not THAT old). So, I'm the proverbial babe in the woods with welder HF generation and it's implications to surrounding circuitry; I just don't have the experience to know. Maybe someone who is a real welder expert can comment.

                                Please confirm you have no adjustable preflow, no spot timer, and no pulser optiopns on your machine Correct I do not have either preflow or a pulser.

                                I do see a suspicious tantalum capacitor on Parts List page 17, C52. As I mentioned in another thread this week, those things are notorious failure points, and I replace them all in any old equipment I repair. You can get them at Allied, Mouser, Digi-Key, TEDSS, etc--any of the electronics supply houses. No guarantees, but while you're fixing this thing, I'd replace it. It is rated at 5.6 microfarads, 35 volts DC. Since it appears to be in a timing circuit, I would try to get that actual value, but at a higher voltage rating like 50 VDC. Their weak point is the slightest overvoltage from a glitch of any kind turns them into the "walking wounded" and from there on its just a matter of time til they go. Putting in one with a higher voltage rating gives a little headroom. Be careful--they are polarity sensitive, and will blow up with a bang if you put 'em in backwards ( and occasionally even if you do everything right). Wear eye protection.

                                This is made a bit more complex in that there is a wire or two shown on some of the more detailed schematics in the manual that don't seem to show up on the main diagram, or at least I haven't found 'em yet. But, lets get a baseline of the problem, and see if we can figure it out. Sorry this is taking so very long.

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