My Miller Syncrowave 180 SD had died on me :(

[tommyg]

Hello everyone! Thanks for having me on the forum here. I've been a long time Miller owner and sadly my trusty ol' 2003 Miller Syncrowave 180 SD (SERIAL NUMBER: LC650711) (CC AC/DC Squarewave Power Source) has died...well, at least the TIG operation on her did. I'm the original owner and only use her part time as hobby so she really does not have a lot of weld time on her. I'm pretty sure her main control board (PC 1- I believe it may be called) has called it quits. I'm hoping that someone may have some suggestions on some items to try that I may have missed before shelling out some bank for a replacement board that's looking pretty costly at this point ($600-$700). Things I've tried:
1. I very rarely ever used the stick operation on her but I tested to see if that still works and it does very nicely.
2. I've disconnected each and every electrical interconnect in the welder and used electronics cleaner and conditioner on each connection with no change.
3. I've thoroughly disassembled and checked her torch from the torch all the way back to the welder connect with no issues found.
4. I've thoroughly disassembled and checked her gas line from the tank to her final torch connect with no issues found.
5. I've tested the output functions of her foot controller with no issues found.
6. I've tested the A and B contact points from the foot controller interconnect to the controller circuit board with my multimeter with no issues.
7. I've removed the main controller circuit board (Miller assembly number 213996) and reflowed all board connector solder joints.
8. Despite functional test of the foot control interconnect and went ahead and soldered all of the contacts with no change.
9. I've checked and tested the welders incoming voltage at the welder both turned off and powered on with no issues found - all looks good (also I've run another welder off this circuit with no issue)
10. I've checked her spark gap for proper clearance - cleaned, rechecked and looked for any signs of issues with none found.
11. I've performed a visual inspection of her main control board with nothing seen in terms of obvious burned resistors, caps, etc. I'm not a component level troubleshooter sadly.

Any other ideas of what I might try would be very appreaciated! Maybe something simple I've over looked? Thanks in advance everyone!

Tommy Graves

[Aeronca41]

Please post your ser no so we can look at the right diagram.

[tommyg]

Will do and thanks

SERIAL NO. LC650711

[Crepe Myrtle Farmer]

OP - your comment about being unable to troubleshoot the main circuit board is what frustrates me too. Miller should offer a built in self diagnostics tool (beyond the current light indicators) - instrumented like we find in PCs these days. I have:

Diversion 180 -- 2 years old, no problems

CST 280 (heavily modified to include 6/4 SOOW since Miller didn't pre-design the lugs, stress relief connector (3/4" - limited to 8/4), etc to run flex (SOOW, so I made the mods) as the NEC calls for higher AWGs than the back panel provides)
--- I believe it's 5 or 6 years old (serial number MB020045G), lost one capacitor over its lifetime (so far), beautiful arc.

252 workhouse -- almost 4 years old, no problems

Sure wish they had "self " or "remote" diagnostics to deal with the circuit boards.

[Arizona Joe]

OP - your comment about being unable to troubleshoot the main circuit board is what frustrates me too. Miller should offer a built in self diagnostics tool (beyond the current light indicators) - instrumented like we find in PCs these days...

Sure wish they had "self " or "remote" diagnostics to deal with the circuit boards.

+1

I would go a step further and suggest that Miller provide the service manual, schematics, gerber files, and BOM, to anyone. In other words, make the boards "open source hardware." Miller customers already pay a premium for the machine. They ought not get ripped off for service. The old VW bugs were rather expensive per/pound, but service and, especially parts, were dirt cheap.

Open source hardware sounds crazy, but it isn't. The Arduino board is open source. Hence, you can buy a clone of it from some manufacturer for half the price of a genuine Arduino. However, folks often will pay the premium for a genuine version so as not to waste time with a faulty clone.

The suits running Miller should to take note as the future of at least their lower end products is in peril. JMHO, but someone has to say it.

Cheers

[Aeronca41]

Unfortunately, the diagram is no help-everything's hidden in the circuit board block. Without a diagram of the board this is a very difficult situation. I have been fixing everything from cars to hundred million dollar computerized eqpt to the component level for years but it's just no longer possible-and very frustrating. However, if Miller let out their schematics, they would soon be out of business. They do the research and development for mind-blowing new products, which costs a lot of money. If they published the results, anyone else could just build it, with no need to recover the R&D costs, and run them out of business. We would all lose the innovation that moves the industry forward, and the funding to support Miller's superb tech support department. So while we find it frustrating when trying to fix something, in the bigger picture, it's just part of the landscape.

[Metjunkie]

I agree with what Aeronca has stated. I understand what companies must do to protect their products. That being said, it seems the only alternatives for failed boards is to replace with new, or send out to a repair facility, and even then there is no guarantee the board will be 100% again. I am curious as to why MIller doesn't have an in- house facility for testing and/or repair of failed boards. As technology progresses, it is more likely that Joe-at-home-DIY-guy will not be able to repair his own equipment. Thus opens the pocketbook, ever wider. That's why I like older vehicles, welders, etc.

[tommyg]

If anyone has or has access to the schematic for my main control board that they could share that would be really great. I understand its a long shot but I have to try

[Jayare123]

Probably not the answer you're looking for but if the stick function welds you could just swap the leads around and run scratch start tig

[Aeronca41]

There are third party board repair companies but the success rate doesn't seem to be 100%.

[ryanjones2150]

I agree with Wayne complete and disagree with the farmer and Joe. I want my stuff to be less confuserized and more robust. Less delicate parts and more old school reliability. But there is no going back. Plus it's hard to argue with the adjustability and functionality of the new stuff. I am in agreement that making things more affordable to repair would surely make life easier for us out here working and less terrifying when stuff breaks. And stuff will break.

[Aeronca41]

...which is why Ryan pays close attention to the care and feeding of his well-aged but always faithful Helga! I agree about the computers-I love the tricks my Dynasty 200 can do, but it is the only inverter (and computerized) machine I own. The trusty old MM200 just keeps chuggin' along, and I took advantage of the closeout sale to get an old transformer style MM211 for portability before they were all gone. And when all the rest are dead and gone, the old thunderbolt will still be welding just like it always has-certainly gonna outlast me!

[ryanjones2150]

That sir, is the number one reason why I haven't sold my old thunderbolt.

[Crepe Myrtle Farmer]

+1

I would go a step further and suggest that Miller provide the service manual, schematics, gerber files, and BOM, to anyone. In other words, make the boards "open source hardware." Miller customers already pay a premium for the machine. They ought not get ripped off for service. The old VW bugs were rather expensive per/pound, but service and, especially parts, were dirt cheap.

Open source hardware sounds crazy, but it isn't. The Arduino board is open source. Hence, you can buy a clone of it from some manufacturer for half the price of a genuine Arduino. However, folks often will pay the premium for a genuine version so as not to waste time with a faulty clone.

The suits running Miller should to take note as the future of at least their lower end products is in peril. JMHO, but someone has to say it.

Cheers

I'm familiar with all you've talked about and Arduino is very very popular within the science community. Kids can "bread board" and "brass board" much with that tech.

As for the Miller circuit boards, I have green and orange tractors that are becoming increasingly "computerized" too, but those companies do, in fact, provide service manuals that allow us to get down to the "component" level for repairs.

I use my UK-made Pico Tech lapscope and my tablet to troubleshoot all sorts of problems on the tractors, have tried same with the Miller circuit boards but not having the schematic makes it challenging. I realize Miller is trying to protect proprietary tech (don't understand why as welders are relatively simple inverters, control tech), but somebody is going to design/build an "open source" multi-process welding box and watch as people flock to it.

[Arizona Joe]

I use my UK-made Pico Tech lapscope and my tablet to troubleshoot all sorts of problems on the tractors, have tried same with the Miller circuit boards but not having the schematic makes it challenging. I realize Miller is trying to protect proprietary tech (don't understand why as welders are relatively simple inverters, control tech), but somebody is going to design/build an "open source" multi-process welding box and watch as people flock to it.

+1 again

While I can understand resistance to going open source hardware, I cannot understand why Miller does not provide schematics and service manuals. Inexcusable in my view. The OP is the owner of an old school machine and can't get service information. Can anyone make a good defense for Miller on the grounds of protecting intellectual property?

Miller's high end stuff is in one class and probably does have some proprietary design features, but I can't imagine that being the case for the Diversion series and especially obsolete machines.

The future of Miller's low end stuff will be overtaken by the Chinese. As the song goes, it's just a matter of time.

Cheers