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  • Diversion 180 Settings for Cast Alum

    I'm trying to get the right set up for my Diversion 180 to repair a 4R70W Ford Trans bell housing -- 2" x 3" part broken off at the end of the bell housing where the motor mounts up. Trans bell housing looks to be (roughly) 3/8" in thickness .........settings:

    A/C 120hz (preset)
    Balance 72 Neg (preset)
    Max setting on amps --- 3/16"

    I talked to Christian at Crown Alloys and he recommended either the R 4043 or R 5356 filler, but I'm just not sure since I have no idea what alloys Ford used in their transmission bell housings in 2002 (year of the vehicle).

    Since my Diversion 180 -- running it at 240V only goes to 3/16" I'm going to do a multi-pass ....................anyone see any problems with the 180 doing a multi pass on a (roughly) 3/8" thick cast alum bell housing and which alloy from Crown would you recommend?
    ESAB TIG 252 with Miller CoolMate
    Spectrum 875
    Diversion 180
    Oxy-A (Harris, ESAB, Ox Weld)
    Miller 252
    MM 211
    CST 280
    Trailblazer - Kubota

    http://www.blackdiamondblooms.com/

  • #2
    I have had good luck recently using Hobart 4943 on aluminum castings. It wets out nicer and just better, but that's just my experience with the two. And I have run the 4943 and the 4043 side by side on the same job for comparison.

    Aluminum castings are always a bit of a gamble. Without knowing the alloy used in the casting, you could be just making a mess out of things. But hey, it's already broke, why not give her **** eh?

    Some preheat will probably won't hurt either. At least burn out some of the schmoo in there.

    Comment


    • #3
      And if it bubbles up from all of the tranny fluid grind it out and start over...Bob
      Bob Wright

      Comment


      • #4
        # 1 Don't use brake cleaner......it can KILL you if mixed with argon!!! I prefer "purple cleaner" myself
        #2 Tack part leaving "some" of the original so it still fits like a puzzle but with a lot of beveling
        #3 as Ryan said, preheat the crap out of it !!
        #4 as Ryan said, use 4943
        It would be nice if you had a machine that you could turn down the frequency to 60hz and the balance to 50%. The results would be much nicer.

        www.facebook.com/outbackaluminumwelding
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        • #5
          Many thanks to all. Sure wish there was a way to determine alloys used in the parts the welding community repairs. I poured some vinegar on the housing and didn't get any "fizz", tried burning shavings with my torch and no ignition so I've eliminated magnesium content, but after there I'm out of options to narrow down the alloy (aluminum).

          It really matters matching up filler to the material being TIG'd, MIG'd, etc. Thanks again to all.
          ESAB TIG 252 with Miller CoolMate
          Spectrum 875
          Diversion 180
          Oxy-A (Harris, ESAB, Ox Weld)
          Miller 252
          MM 211
          CST 280
          Trailblazer - Kubota

          http://www.blackdiamondblooms.com/

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ryanjones2150 View Post
            I have had good luck recently using Hobart 4943 on aluminum castings. It wets out nicer and just better, but that's just my experience with the two. And I have run the 4943 and the 4043 side by side on the same job for comparison.

            Aluminum castings are always a bit of a gamble. Without knowing the alloy used in the casting, you could be just making a mess out of things. But hey, it's already broke, why not give her **** eh?

            Some preheat will probably won't hurt either. At least burn out some of the schmoo in there.

            I had heard Hobart's wire was very good quality. I'm not happy with the stuff Airgas has been selling me at their retail location.
            ESAB TIG 252 with Miller CoolMate
            Spectrum 875
            Diversion 180
            Oxy-A (Harris, ESAB, Ox Weld)
            Miller 252
            MM 211
            CST 280
            Trailblazer - Kubota

            http://www.blackdiamondblooms.com/

            Comment


            • #7
              For the alloy content did you contact ford.com? There is a contact number where they say they will answer questions. Also, there are probably numerous clubs who have knowledgeable members to answer your question.

              Lastly, I just chanced upon the video below about welding aluminum, especially castings with Pete Zila. I know nothing about this topic but found the video to be enlightening, interesting and believable.

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir-pS7GzT28

              Cheers
              Last edited by Arizona Joe; 07-25-2017, 10:48 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by FusionKing View Post
                # 1 Don't use brake cleaner......it can KILL you if mixed with argon!!! I prefer "purple cleaner" myself
                The use of chlorinated cleaners can kill you and it is important to recognize the risk, but it is not the presence of argon but more likely the heat that can produce toxic gases. From the CDC:
                • Phosgene can be formed when chlorinated hydrocarbon compounds are exposed to high temperatures. Chlorinated hydrocarbon compounds are substances sometimes used or created in industry that contain the elements chlorine, hydrogen, and carbon.
                • The vapors of chlorinated solvents exposed to high temperatures have been known to produce phosgene. Chlorinated solvents are chlorine-containing chemicals that are typically used in industrial processes to dissolve or clean other materials, such as in paint stripping, metal cleaning, and dry cleaning.

                https://emergency.cdc.gov/agent/phos...sics/facts.asp
                ---Meltedmetal

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Arizona Joe View Post
                  For the alloy content did you contact ford.com? There is a contact number where they say they will answer questions. Also, there are probably numerous clubs who have knowledgeable members to answer your question.

                  Lastly, I just chanced upon the video below about welding aluminum, especially castings with Pete Zila. I know nothing about this topic but found the video to be enlightening, interesting and believable.

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir-pS7GzT28

                  Cheers
                  LOL, as soon as I saw the title of this thread I was going to link that video.

                  I don't know what this 4R70W is in, but there's plenty of them around, why not just get another one? If the trans is something special going in something special then get a JY case and swap internals. If it isn't then just get one from the JY and swap it in. I know that this is a welding site, but by the time you manage to weld this thing back together I doubt everything will line up right, which is a sure way to end up with driveline problems and a dead trans (well, I can think of one way to do it, bolt it to a spare block to hold it all in place) and between the gunk soaked into the porous casting and the fact that an aluminum weld is never as strong as the base metal you'll be lucky if what you end up with is 1/4-1/3 as strong as it started before it broke. You'll have wasted a ton of time and effort for something that will likely never be right.

                  If you still insist on doing it use all the pre-heat you can get, it will help get some of the crud out of the casting, then I would try the 5356 first, but that's really a crap shoot, a weld on an unknown grade of aluminum could end up looking good and crack off when you bolt it down.
                  Mark
                  (aka: Silverback, WS6 TA, JYDog, 83 Crossfire TA, mpikas, mmp...)
                  Synchrowave 180 SD | MillerMatic 211MVP + Spoolmate | Hobart Handler 135 | Everlast Power Plasma 50
                  1960 Bridgeport J-head | Grizzly 10x22 | HF bandsaw | Rigid 4.5” angle grinder (+2 cheapie HF ones)
                  BFH

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The trans case is probably 356 alloy..... readily weldable with proper cleaning and preparation

                    I would go with 4943 filler as Ryan & FusionKing have suggested... It flows beautifully and has plenty of strength..
                    Also.... 4943 is not temp restricted as 5356 is

                    http://www.hobartbrothers.com/upload...Maxal_4943.pdf

                    How about some pics of the parts you intend to weld....??
                    Last edited by H80N; 07-26-2017, 09:36 AM.
                    .

                    *******************************************
                    The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

                    “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

                    Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

                    My Blue Stuff:
                    Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
                    Dynasty 200DX
                    Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
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                    TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      BTW The hobart maxal aluminum handbook is worth downloading... reading & keeping for reference

                      http://maxal.com/files/QuickSiteImag...g_9-12_doc.pdf



                      The only major obstacle might be the relatively low power of your welder...
                      but you could overcome that with some preheat... and possibly a Helium/Argon gas mix
                      .

                      *******************************************
                      The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

                      “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

                      Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

                      My Blue Stuff:
                      Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
                      Dynasty 200DX
                      Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
                      Millermatic 200

                      TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by H80N View Post
                        The trans case is probably 356 alloy..... readily weldable with proper cleaning and preparation

                        I would go with 4943 filler as Ryan & FusionKing have suggested... It flows beautifully and has plenty of strength..
                        Also.... 4943 is not temp restricted as 5356 is

                        http://www.hobartbrothers.com/upload...Maxal_4943.pdf

                        How about some pics of the parts you intend to weld....??


                        I spoke to a 30-yr Ford Master Tech I know and he said the same thing --- 356 alloy from what he remembered. Thank you.
                        ESAB TIG 252 with Miller CoolMate
                        Spectrum 875
                        Diversion 180
                        Oxy-A (Harris, ESAB, Ox Weld)
                        Miller 252
                        MM 211
                        CST 280
                        Trailblazer - Kubota

                        http://www.blackdiamondblooms.com/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by H80N View Post
                          BTW The hobart maxal aluminum handbook is worth downloading... reading & keeping for reference

                          http://maxal.com/files/QuickSiteImag...g_9-12_doc.pdf



                          The only major obstacle might be the relatively low power of your welder...
                          but you could overcome that with some preheat... and possibly a Helium/Argon gas mix

                          Excellent document. Thank You for posting. Preheat plus the Diversion 180 should get the job done -- this "little" box is awfully mighty handy.

                          My next project is brazing a new alum radiator (Champion) into my F-600 Dump Truck's steel radiator frame --- tinning the steel with silver brazing material then using aluminum brazing material 4047 to join the dissimilar materials.
                          ESAB TIG 252 with Miller CoolMate
                          Spectrum 875
                          Diversion 180
                          Oxy-A (Harris, ESAB, Ox Weld)
                          Miller 252
                          MM 211
                          CST 280
                          Trailblazer - Kubota

                          http://www.blackdiamondblooms.com/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Crepe Myrtle Farmer View Post


                            My next project is brazing a new alum radiator (Champion) into my F-600 Dump Truck's steel radiator frame --- tinning the steel with silver brazing material then using aluminum brazing material 4047 to join the dissimilar materials.
                            This would be a mistake & doomed to failure.....

                            Find a way to bolt it in
                            .

                            *******************************************
                            The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

                            “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

                            Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

                            My Blue Stuff:
                            Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
                            Dynasty 200DX
                            Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
                            Millermatic 200

                            TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by H80N View Post

                              This would be a mistake & doomed to failure.....

                              Find a way to bolt it in

                              The frame involved is the original frame that was brazed to the original radiator's tanks, then bolted to the truck's front end clip.

                              The frame acts like a "clamp" ( [ ] ) restricting the radiator's movement left/right, up/down -- the real hold down forces are thru the bolts into the front clip. The brazing is actually a "puddle" build up through drilled holes in the steel clamps ( [ ] ) into the alum radiator. I might just use the 180 w/4043 as an option.

                              Did something very similar on another diesel truck and it's held up for going on four years now.

                              My Miller products keep me in business -- really like the quality, durability, dependability.
                              ESAB TIG 252 with Miller CoolMate
                              Spectrum 875
                              Diversion 180
                              Oxy-A (Harris, ESAB, Ox Weld)
                              Miller 252
                              MM 211
                              CST 280
                              Trailblazer - Kubota

                              http://www.blackdiamondblooms.com/

                              Comment

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