Flux vs Shielded Flux Question

[ryanjones2150]

I'll share this with you, as I'm having some struggles here the last two days....<br />
<br />
I ran out of .045 dual shield. I got the roll given to me by a friend that works for a big fab shop. It was a demo from who knows where. I don't even know the brand. It ran fine. Not spectacular, but fine. So I run down to my LWS and get a roll of esab dual shield. I can't get it to run worth a flip. Well, I take that back, seems to run ok, but the welds turn out porous and nasty looking. I can't seem to get it dialed in and time is running out. <br />
<br />
So, free wire is awesome. Changing wires every time to you put a new roll on might cause you some problems. I'm tired of grinding welds out.

[SLP82]

Let me guess: he paid by the hour?

Yes he paid by the hour, haha. Well here is the deal. A friend of mine works for a company who they do a lot of projects and time is money to them. Between these projects they rewire the machines and they don't like them to stop and have to do maintenance so they pull the spools off of the welders and discard the left over wire if it is obviously below half way full. They allow these guys to take the "leftover" spools home, which usually have somewhere between 15 lbs to 1 lbs of wire left. So he gets his hands on these left overs so often that he told me he can get any type of wire I want with lets say a average of 10 lbs on a 44 lb spool. He already brought me 5 spools the 1st day of dual shield flux, as I already have a full spool of MIG and Gasless flux. So I can basically get wire for free. So assuming you would get wire for free, would you choose to use MIG or Dual Shield Flux? Almost everything I do will either be building barbecue pits, fixing trailers, or welding up A/C security cages.

[kevin]

if you are just starting out, stay with the mig, the dual shield with co2 is great, but not really where you should be, if you are doing bigger welds it would be ok, but your machine wont keep up with it if you start pounding out the wire, plus, as mentioned, costly. dont under estimate the mig process, once you learn how to use it, you will be amazed as what you can weld with it. i reccomend that you find someone with lots of mig experience to show you the ropes. ive been welding my whole life, used both for many years, each has a place, i run a small shop, considered dual shield, from what i do, it wasnt cost efficient

[MAC702]

...My boss who taught me a lot of what I know, basically had the attitude of "MIG solves everything". If the frame needs to be repaired... MIG. If we are building a trailer... MIG. If we build a custom barbecue pit... MIG. If I am welding vertical or overhead... MIG. I have yet to find anything he doesn't just say use the MIG....

Let me guess: he paid by the hour?

[MAC702]

Depends. What's the machine already loaded with? Is it windy? Is the material clean? Both will build it. I'd lean toward MIG if the material was clean and there wasn't any wind. Even if you were using a small machine, you ain't building a bridge.

[SLP82]

So if you were going to build a barbecue pit from lets say 1/4" steel pipe, would you use MIG or dual shielded flux?

[ryanjones2150]

You'll find the dual shield wire is a fair bit more expensive. It's cheaper for me to use .045 dual shield than it is to use .035 because of the cost per pound from my LWS. Some places around here use the dual shield to save time, then switch to pure CO2 to save money. I would also consider buying some wire that is reputable and consistent. I've been liking the esab wires lately, had a lot of success with them. <br />
<br />
Nobody is gonna beat you up over your choice of machine.

[MAC702]

...does anyone know if it can be used to do flux dual shield? You just swap the leads around right?...

Of course. It depends on where the leads are now.

[SLP82]

I am sure I am going to get hammered for this, but I purchased a Everlast 210 MIG to do some at home stuff. I use a Miller 210 at work, but I couldn't justify purchasing one for home right now. Plus I got a killer deal on the Everlast on black Friday (normally $999, got it delivered to my house for $700 out the door). I was also upgraded to a 15' gun for free plus given a bunch of extra tips. Anyways, does anyone know if it can be used to do flux dual shield? You just swap the leads around right?

Definitely sounds like dual shield is the way to go. Its really interesting because my boss at my job where we build custom trailers, and repair trailers, has me welding them with solid wire (MIG) setup. Ive noticed in certain positions its very tricky. Most of my experience previous to this job was doing dual shield flux. I just never knew the benefits of it compared to MIG.

So if you were going to build a barbecue pit from lets say 1/4" steel pipe, would you use MIG or dual shielded flux?

[gnforge]

Agree with all above except that Dual Shield is only inside wire. It is my outside wire and my go to wire for most repairs. <br />
I run metal core in shop unless it's a lot of vert welding then I'll use dual shield in shop. <br />
Keep in mind if it's windy or raining hard need cover or wind break tarp. Other wise I will shield light wind with arm or glove and runs great. <br />
All in all it a pretty forgiving wire. And yes stronger and more ductile than solid wire.

[ryanjones2150]

If you're repairing trailers, dual shield would be my choice.

[snoeproe]

Self shielded flux cor is most common for hobby guys. It's going to be ideal for you if your welding trailers that are not new. Aka not clean steel. The downfall of self shielded flux cor wire is the spatter and clean up. The plus is it runs in all positions and can be used anywhere (outdoors).
Dual shield wire (flux cor-gas) would be the wire to use if your building new trailers. It has a very high rate of metal deposition, the welds are clean with little spatter. The welds are good looking. Dual shield wire runs well in all positions, it's like running 7018 from a wire gun. If used outdoors, you need to build a wind screen or temp hoarding.
Solid wire with gas is clean, makes nice looking welds and has little to no spatter or smoke. The downfall is it does not run real well in all positions. It can run vertical up and overhead but you need good skills to do that. It also can't be used outdoors as shielding gas will be blown away. Solid wire doesn't penitrate as well as self shielded flux cor or dual shield wire.

[SLP82]

So in what situation would you choose dual shield flux over MIG? Is the weld stronger, or penetrate more? Just trying to fully understand why anyone would ever use dual shield then over MIG.

[MAC702]

Right. There are no shortcuts. You use the correct gas (and polarity) specified by the wire. Solid wires will use DCEP and usually a mostly inert gas and have the clean welds you want. Flux-cored wires will usually use DCEN and might be gas-less or dual-shielded with usually an active shielding gas (like CO2), as specified by the wire.

[nfinch86]

What you call Shielded Flux is " Dual-shield " - meaning after you weld, there is a slag you have to chip off.
Mig, is a hard wire + gas & No slag to chip off.

Both have to be protected from wind or a strong breeze.

Flux- core ( Gasless ) you can weld outside , without any worry of wind.
Flux-Core is like an inverted stick electrode, but the flux is on the inside of the wire, as opposed to a stick electrode has the flux on the " Outside ".
Flux-cored is hollow with the flux on the inside.

Norm