Welding a section into a truck frame

[ryanjones2150]

It will not be as strong as a solid frame like it was before. It is not likely you got 100% penetration either. Regardless of how well you controlled the heat input, there will be a heat affected zone. <br />
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You may not want to see the repair, but a patch and then a fish plate would've probably been a more suitable repair. Plus, in 5 years, you'll be able to see exactly where the repair is and can inspect it for failure. <br />
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I inspect the welds on our drag cars regularly, and they weren't rusted out frame rails. That frame rail will continue to rust. I have no doubt that the inside is all ate up with it. <br />
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Keep an eye on that thing.

[steelwarhorses]

Interesting project. I'd be very careful with heat (it sure seems like you're adding a lot to that frame) and also limit the amount of grinding if possible -- my experience with grinding is it can (and often does) induce cracks later.

Most of my heat you see is going into the new 3/16 piece I added to try and get the curve of the frame. Around the edges where this piece joins the frame, I don't have that much welding heat.

[steelwarhorses]

I cut out the bad sections of the frame and putting a new 3/16 piece in the "holes". I'm doing it free hand and trying to keep the new metal flush with the frame metal and I was having problems with gaps between the two. Especially the top where the frame is a little thinner than the 3/16 piece I added in. THe new 215 and it's probably more with me using .030 wire with it vs .035 with my 250x.. Also what you may be seeing is the frame rail is wasn't flat it was kind of curved and I had a flat piece I'm welding in. Thus the center I had to actually do some filler weld on the new 3/16 piece in the center out to the edges because I'm trying to maintain the curve. When I paint it I'd like for it to look like nothing was ever done. (Plus be as strong as it was, not just trying to hide it but trying to learn to do this kind of thing.). The fill on the new 3/16 piece is mostly what I'm grinding on.

Also, like I stated in some earlier posts, I actually lifted the vehicle on a two post lift under the center of rust hole in the picture before I did anything and the frame didn't give a centimeter. (I was amazed.) The outside didn't look bad as the inside I posted a picture of and didn't realize it until I got under it after it was lifted. (I use jack stands with the 2 post before getting under anything as 2 post still make me nervous.)

So if it was strong enough to lift 6k before, then Liquid nails, JB weld etc would have probably sufficed in closing it up but I want to stop the rust and again I'm learning on this endeavor. I'll lift it up from time to time after I'm done to keep an eye on it.

I've ran some welds on scrap on a table and welded up some cracks on my machinery but I wanted to do something overhead like this to try and start taking the training wheels off!

[nfinch86]

OP -- is this a "fish plate" type repair??

No - He just cut out a piece and put a new one in.

Norm

[Customizer]

OP -- is this a "fish plate" type repair??

[Customizer]

Interesting project. I'd be very careful with heat (it sure seems like you're adding a lot to that frame) and also limit the amount of grinding if possible -- my experience with grinding is it can (and often does) induce cracks later.

[Bls repair]

What I do when I join thicker to thin metal is lite up on the thicker metal then wash over to thinner and quickly back to thicker so not to burn though thin material.

[ryanjones2150]

Did you fill that gapping hole up with weld metal?

[steelwarhorses]

Some pix.

[steelwarhorses]

Thanks everyone. I'm posting this to refer to later and hopefully help others.

I've been delayed on this but I got a Multimatic 215 yesterday. A friend told me .035 wire may be too thick and to try .023. So I got the 215 to setup with .023 and set my 250x at .030.

Anyway, the 215 I forgot .023 tips so I ground everything clean and put the .030 wire in. (Non flux or shield.) I set the 215 to 3/16 and pulled the trigger and it blew a quarter size hole in what I had fixed up. (The smart settings on this thing don't appear to be that smart but that's a topic for another discussion.) So I took it off auto and turned it down to 16.9 v & wfs 163 and WOW. (Auto was 19.6 & 430 wfs if I recall.)

Using the push technique like suggested here, I started out above the holes and used an upside U like motion to push the puddle down. With those settings it's almost like using a caulk gun. The puddle, like a caulk is laying a 1/16" layer down about every pass and it just closes the holes right up but doesn't drip if you go the right speed.

I'm getting good penetration as well where I'm getting about 3/16 or a little less on the passes I'm making. Since my goal is to end up with the frame smooth like it was from the factory I'm going to have to do some grinding.

I'm taking some pictures as I go and when I get finished I'll try to post them here with anything else I learned.

Thanks everyone for the input!!!

[ryanjones2150]

You will have slag inclusions if you aren't chipping the slag between spot welds. <br />
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I do my fair share of welding on old car iron. Sometimes it makes you pull your hair out when you start getting little volcanos in your weld. I have found, and maybe some others have some suggestions, that the esab spool arc wire performs much better on less then clean metal as compared to the Lincoln stuff. And that is a solid wire. I was welding yesterday on some trailer parts that were rusty and powder coated. It did well, not perfect, but it was fine. <br />
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Another option that has worked well for me is to tig weld it using 309 filler metal. It's like a magic wand, that weld puddle starts bubbling spitting and sputtering....push a little 309 in there and it will instantly smooth out.

[H80N]

Any chance of posting some pics...???

[steelwarhorses]

Thanks for the tips. I cut a little more out and had to go back and forth on wire speed and temp and pushing definitely helped. I cut the sections out free hand with my plasma and the replacement pieces free hand so I had some gaps. I found a setting where I penetrated the thin and a little of the puddle would sag down and eventually I bridge the gap. A little here and a little there as suggested. I had to only wait usually for the metal to cool till it wasn't red and I could hit it again.

Then once it got to the thicker metal I turned up the settings and ran a couple of rows As pointed out I initially chipped after every little thing, But I just started going back over it without chipping every time. (If that ends up causing a problem, I'll grind down and redo it.)

The metal is clean on the outside so I may try the non flux I have. The sections I've got I've hit with a hammer and it's still open on one end and sounds and feels solid.

Again thanks for the tips. I'm having to grind more than I should but finally getting results that I think are going to be solid.

[ryanjones2150]

I don't think dual shied would be my choice for filling a hole or gap. I say that because you're going to stitch it. You really need to remove the slag between stitches or spot welds. That will take forever. Don't get me wrong, I love dial shield, but not for this application. Just my input.

[steelwarhorses]

Sounds like you are doing OK. Couldn't tell from your original post your level of experience. No attempt to put you down, just concern if you were a complete newbie on your own potentially headed for trouble. Hope you get it fixed. Great advice from Forced_Firebird. I have used those techniques quite successfully.

I didn't take it that way. I always get in a quandary because if I put all that kind of info in to start, then it's too long or comes across wrong.

Anyway, looking tonight I should have started this up an 1" higher as the metal feels about the right thickness there. I'm going to practice running some beads from there down and hopefully that will get me into my filler piece. Thanks again for the input. I appreciate it.