Cutting and Notching, angles. Need some help

[Olivero]

Hello,

I am currently on a job of building this tire rack that I attached the drawing for. I started 2 days ago and last night I was cutting in and fitting pieces for the sides. The piece on the left side of the picture is supported with multiple cross bars, all of which are cut at different and odd angles. I am running into the problem of really, like really bad fit up, there is like a 1/4" gap on both sides of the pipe and I just can't seem to get the pipe to fit in really well and I don't know what I am doing wrong.

I have one of them pretty much welded together but I had to insert spacers and sticking with one rod, use another as a filler to try to fill the holes and its just not looking as good as I want it and its taking much longer than if it was fitted good.

How do you guys determine your notching, based on the angle or the diameter of the pipe or in between?

Need some help.

[ryanjones2150]

So...Oli....I started to type a long winded run down of how I notch tubes for roll cages and junk like that. Then I had a thought....I know, rare for me, right?....I thought, there HAS to be a YouTube video that will help, and since I don't do YouTube videos, I did a quick search. Found this short video and its pretty much how I do my notches...except I do all of mine with an angle grinder....ya, takes a while sometimes...I affectionately call it "walking in the cut" ... <br />
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https://youtu.be/mHBanmfn_CA<br />
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So hope it helps.

[Olivero]

Lol, thanks for the link. Worksite computers won't let me go on Youtube lol... Guess people spent too much time on them

Maybe you could go into your long winded run down, if you have time. I spent 2 hours just welding one side of the frame and filling holes with spacers and welding it all up, if it all fit good, could have the whole piece done in 2, all welds wire wheeled and painted.

I have someone cutting for me so at least I don't have to do both but I would love to get a good, easy way to do it that I can show him. Its 2" schedule 40 pipe

This forum needs a smiley that laughs....

[Forced_Firebird]

Nice Rack! hehe. I was able to score some commercial built Tire Rack brand racks, but those look fun to build!

I would treat them the same way I do roll cages. This is a little method I came up with, works well and wastes little - almost all the cuts are a one-cut-weld. I call it the long-long, short-short, long-short method.

Take a piece of string and stretch it where you want your tube to be. Choose one side of the pipe, not the center. For a visual, you could always run two pieces and measure between to keep the parallel. Zip ties work great for this. They will keep the string taught and you won't have to get creative with knots.

Then measure the full length by going to the longest point(s) of the tube you are making. Cut the tube square. Then I use a digital angle finder for speed, but you would also use a protractor. Then subtract a few degrees. I then use the hole saw jig to start the cut on the ID of the pipe on one end - this leaves the end the obtuse angle square and almost perfect for filling since the weld will already be "beveled" when it meets the other tube - so to speak. The thickness of the tube will be the bevel (perfect penetration IS the thickness of the tube after all). Now for re-assurance, take the tube over to the frame and double check your angle. If there's a little more gap on the inside (acute side), don't sweat it, this is the easy side to fill and penetrate. Now you can measure the other side. If it is a long to long (such as a 45° on a speed square) then start your hole saw the way you did the first time. If it's a long-to-short, as if you had a angle inside a long rectangle (I see your drawing, these will be more common), then use the string to measure from where your hole saw exited the tube to the long side to see where you start the hole saw.

Basically what ends up happening after you get the hang of the long-winded instruction is you will find you can cut the pipe square, and start the hole saw right at the inside corner (ID) of the tube, flip it, repeat and almost every time it will drop in an weld up. Once in a while, I will have to run the hole saw again to shave a little, but usually only happens when I have to make an "X" and the pipes MUST be perfectly met.

Perhaps I should make a YouTube video on the next cage build, lol. Would be much faster to link someone, but can understand why the boss doesn't allow it on your server. Could always sneak in the bathroom and use your phone, after all, you are streamlining HIS/HER production :P

[ryanjones2150]

Just too much and it'll get all convoluted like firebird's. It's just way too hard to explain on here. And I know you being Scandinavian and all that you're probably still in the stone ages, but borrow some kid's smart phone for a few minutes and go watch the you tube video. <br />
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Like I was saying, the biggest difference between how I do it and the guy in the video is that I use a grinder with a cut off wheel almost exclusively. The guy in the video uses a chop saw to start out. It's a pretty good idea. <br />
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I have no earthly idea about how the running strings works, but it sounds pretty precise.....until I was completely lost. Make a video on how to do it firebird. I'll watch it for sure.

[Olivero]

Forced Firebird,

Thank you for the explanation, let me see if I got this right,

All of the pipe 2" schd 40. Black steel.

So I get the string, that's pretty genius, but There is an existing tire rack in the space, I am copying it, I decided to build it in their shop so its much easier for me as I can cut and compare to the other one. So I don't need to refigure my angles as I have a sliding digital protractor so I can copy existing angles. My only problem is getting it to fit up.

Like you can see on the drawing, back piece is straight, front piece is sloped so the angles are ever changing. I managed to get everything to fit up and from 10 feet away it looks fantastic, get closer, well.... you can see the holes as they aren't welded in yet with a lot more welding and a lot more grinding and a whole lot more welding, it will look good.

So here is my question, how do you determine the proper notch? I have a plasma cutter over there that I could probably use but I am limited to very basic tools like a chop saw that can only go 45*, one way and not the other and my angle grinder and 3 different welders

No fancy work tables or lathes or anything that I could actually use............. I don't even think there is a steel hole saw out there

I see that notching both sides on the same end of the pipe is necessary to get it to fit in properly but that's where my trouble is, I can't seem to get it right so it just snugs up.

[Forced_Firebird]

I use a tubing notcher. I ahve used the ones from Harbor Freight, and they work, just don't expect them to last.

http://www.harborfreight.com/pipe-tubing-notcher-42324.html

Don't need a "steel" hole saw. Any saw that is labeled "bi-metal" will work on ferrous steel. Just go slow and use lots of oil.

Do you have a drill press? With a welder, grinder and chop saw, you surely can make a jig.

Sorry, I am used to having or making tools. I made my own sheet metal brake from scraps in the "usable drops" at the supply house - just gotta get ingenious at times.

The only other way I have done it, it hold the pipe up where it needs to be, cut slightly longer. By eye, mark the center of the frame tube down your "horizontal-ish" tube. Cut that with the angle grinder. Then you can "vee" with the angle grinder to get close and "skim" it in to fit.

Tell your boss, if he spends a few dollars on a hole saw and jig, you can build it in a couple hours - OR - he can pay you to all day to grind and fit...as a bonus the nothing jig will still be in the shop for future projects hehe.

[Olivero]

Not a bad idea.... Not a bad idea at all

It says it can do 2" but I guess I would need 2" bi-metal hole saw as well?

[Forced_Firebird]

Yes, the hole saw would match your tubing.

[Metjunkie]

I bought the HF tubing notcher this year when I was building my chain link fence gates. I didn't have a lot of patience for the cut, grind, check fit, grind again process with grinders and portabands. I read on some forum to use the next size smaller holesaw than what was needed for a good fit. I found that info to be wrong. What Firebird said, the holesaw diameter matches the tubing diameter. Notcher and Morse bimetal holesaws worked great Granted, it was on 16 ga. tubing. If you only use the notcher periodically, it should serve you well .

[Forced_Firebird]

I have had great luck with the Lenox brand. I can usually get at least 2 full roll cages out of one saw (1.75"x.120" wall DOM).

[ryanjones2150]

I have a small tubing notcher like what you guys are talking about, works well, I like it. Think I got it from JEGS. Especially good for repeating multiple identical cuts. When I'm fitting bits on a roll cage, I can notch it with my grinder way faster than setting up the jig each time. I'm impatient you see.

[Forced_Firebird]

I have a small tubing notcher like what you guys are talking about, works well, I like it. Think I got it from JEGS. Especially good for repeating multiple identical cuts. When I'm fitting bits on a roll cage, I can notch it with my grinder way faster than setting up the jig each time. I'm impatient you see.

I would like to see that! My buddy and I did a complete cage from start to finish in ~14hr one weekend when pressed for time. I use an old Bridgeport vice and set it on a cart, clamp the notching jig with a hand drill motor hanging off it - go about it that way. By the tine you are done cutting off the end of the tube, I have a feeling the hole saw will be through the pipe and have the notch there already

If you click the instagram link in link in my sig, there's a few shots of cages we built. Haven't been posting there much lately, though.

[Olivero]

So you could run this HF one off an electric drill?

Went back last night, spent 2 hours just welding up gaps, then figured out it was much easier to weld gaps flat instead of vertical uphill

Finding pieces of scrap and using them as spacers, taking the mig over and filling the holes with it, then taking the stick over and doing a real weld.............................. So time consuming...

Got a different fitter though, he was trying to figure out how to cut the angles and notches properly, I turn around and he's cutting up a piece of paper, I go over there "what's that?" "oh, yeah, I made a wrap around to cut out the 60* angle" Huh...... There might be hope of a proper fit-up now

They want this whole thing done in 2 days.................... No time for buying any tools, just need a guy that can think and figure it out and I can just worry about making it all stay together.

I will order one of those notchers though, especially if they work with like a dewalt drill gun, then we're talking.

[ryanjones2150]

I have an old 1/2" drill motor I use on mine. I have never tried to cut black iron pope with it though, just steel and chromoly tubing for roll cages. It's probably thinner than what you're cutting. <br />
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I remember hearing about a website you could go to, plug in the parameters (diameter, angle, wall thickness, etc) and it would generate a printable template in a .PDF format. Provided you print it at the correct scale, supposed to be spot on. I've never used it. Too impatient for that.