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New, got NEMA 6-50R in garage this weekend Now What?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by ryanjones2150 View Post
    I wish that machine was out when I got my first MIG. Although, I had never even heard of such creatures like MIG Welders for a long time. On the farm, we had an old massive AC machine. The kind you had all the sockets on the front and you had to move the lead to adjust the amperage. As far as I knew, stick welding WAS the only kind of welding and 6011 was the only kind of welding rod. Never even crossed my mind that there was something different. Then I find this "new" technology and think....hmmm, now wouldn't that have been handy.

    Wow. I've only seen one of those old multi tap machines once. And it has heavy as all get out.

    You you see what trying to get at. I don't think that there is a better bang for the buck miller machine made right now. For less then $1200 after rebate you got a duel voltage machine that will MIG/Stick/TIG and that's under 30 pounds. There's no way anyone could convince me otherwise there's a better DIY home machine for beginners that you won't outgrow.

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    • #32
      Unless he wants to tig weld aluminum of course. I think I would agree with you on that. I haven't compared the 215 and the 200 side by side, but I'd guess the 200 is bit more robust, at a cost, for sure.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by ryanjones2150 View Post
        Unless he wants to tig weld aluminum of course. I think I would agree with you on that. I haven't compared the 215 and the 200 side by side, but I'd guess the 200 is bit more robust, at a cost, for sure.
        It is. But unless your banging this thing around in the back of a welding truck everyday, an extra $400 is some expensive robust.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by ryanjones2150 View Post
          With a good machine, he could at least take on some side work now and then to help offset the cost.
          This opens up another question maybe better for a different thread but here goes,...

          So lets say I have a Sync 210 and Plasma 625 which would be the ultimate for me and say a guy needs a 3 ft square sheet of 3/8" stainless steel cut into a pattern for a sailboat keel probably about 100" of plasma cutting and say he needs a couple tabs or something welded on say 6 time 5" of weld. What would someone charge for such a task on the side out of their garage?

          Just wondering.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Johnnyappleseed View Post

            This opens up another question maybe better for a different thread but here goes,...

            So lets say I have a Sync 210 and Plasma 625 which would be the ultimate for me and say a guy needs a 3 ft square sheet of 3/8" stainless steel cut into a pattern for a sailboat keel probably about 100" of plasma cutting and say he needs a couple tabs or something welded on say 6 time 5" of weld. What would someone charge for such a task on the side out of their garage?

            Just wondering.
            how intricate a pattern? For cutting I charge by the inch.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Lostone View Post

              how intricate a pattern? For cutting I charge by the inch.
              Just broad sweeping cuts. So what would a guy charge doing it out of his garage hoping to get a little word of mouth side work.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by ryanjones2150 View Post
                Of course he'll outgrow a 115v MIG machine. ...
                I use my 120V GMAW machine as often as my 240V GMAW and SMAW machines. Granted, I had a 240V GMAW machine first (MM175) but after I sold my Passport, I eventually wanted not only 120V capability/portability, but especially the convenience of having a second GMAW machine, already loaded with smaller wire for the smaller jobs.

                So while it will be outgrown, it will never be obsolete.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Johnnyappleseed View Post

                  Just broad sweeping cuts. So what would a guy charge doing it out of his garage hoping to get a little word of mouth side work.
                  don't underbid yourself, just to get work. Was the hardest lesson I had to learn. Losing money is worse then making no money.

                  What you charge totally depends on where your located. I'm in Northern VA so it's a little higher cost of living, but at the same time there small farms everywhere within a 30 minute drive that are tight with money.

                  My advice is to charge taking into account what your costs are. And remember your time is worth something too.





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                  • #39
                    A lot of my side work is for other firemen, so I give them the special fireman price. As a starting point, not taking into consideration how complex or how easy it is, this is where I start when making a quote:<br />
                    <br />
                    Chop saw (or the like) cuts $1<br />
                    Plasma cuts $1 per inch<br />
                    Tack welds when setting up $1 each<br />
                    Welds $1 per inch<br />
                    <br />
                    Then work from there. Factor your materials in, figure a good rate for your consumables for the market you live in. When you finish your math, if it's too little, add some. If it's too high, knock off some. <br />
                    <br />
                    If I'm buying the metal it costs me time and money to do so, my customer pays for that. If I have to design something, my customer pays for that. Nothing is free but I'm also not a vulture or a highway robber.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by ryanjones2150 View Post
                      A lot of my side work is for other firemen, so I give them the special fireman price. As a starting point, not taking into consideration how complex or how easy it is, this is where I start when making a quote:<br />
                      <br />
                      Chop saw (or the like) cuts $1<br />
                      Plasma cuts $1 per inch<br />
                      Tack welds when setting up $1 each<br />
                      Welds $1 per inch<br />
                      <br />
                      Then work from there. Factor your materials in, figure a good rate for your consumables for the market you live in. When you finish your math, if it's too little, add some. If it's too high, knock off some. <br />
                      <br />
                      If I'm buying the metal it costs me time and money to do so, my customer pays for that. If I have to design something, my customer pays for that. Nothing is free but I'm also not a vulture or a highway robber.
                      Your almost in line with me. Only any welding or cutting over 3/16 to 1/2, I charge 1.XX. 1/2 -3/4 is 2.XX, with XX being the metal thickness. Like 1/4" would be $1 x 1.25, 3/4 being $1 x 2.75. Anything over 3/4 I charge by the job. Mostly those being cutting edges and primary replacements. It takes into account how much more materials you use on thicker materials. Plus I have a minimum so it's worth my time to do small jobs.

                      It it comes down to if your a hobbyist looking for a little extra cash or if your trying to make a living.

                      Sometimes i I do small stuff for free for people who bring me there big jobs too. Or if she flirts (nod to the wife).

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Lostone View Post

                        It is. But unless your banging this thing around in the back of a welding truck everyday, an extra $400 is some expensive robust.
                        I went to check what the difference is.
                        The Multimatic 200 has a Bernard Q150 gun and the 215 comes with a M-100 gun. That accounts for some of the price increase. It also has a bit more amperage lower voltage on the 120V side but less amperage and higher voltage on the 230V side. Also it's wireless compatible so it has the 14 pin connector.

                        its funny that the would supply the M-100 gun with it. It has a duty cycle that is under what the 215's duty cycle is. I guess that's how they are keeping the cost down.
                        Last edited by Lostone; 12-21-2016, 06:36 AM. Reason: Added more to post...

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                        • #42
                          Your bid algorithm is more complete than mine and it makes sense. <br />
                          <br />
                          On the 200 vs 215 comparison, what's the duty cycle difference? <br />
                          <br />
                          It appears to me that the 200 was never marketed as a hobbyist machine while the 215 is, which probably accounts for then industrial strength upgrades. I wonder what the difference is in the components in the guts. On an industrial machines are the circuit board components of better quality? Or even the circuit board itself? Some of the electro-magicians here might know....Wayne....Heiti....Cruizer would certainly know.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by ryanjones2150 View Post
                            Unless he wants to tig weld aluminum of course. I think I would agree with you on that. I haven't compared the 215 and the 200 side by side, but I'd guess the 200 is bit more robust, at a cost, for sure.
                            I would be LOST without the ability to TIG aluminum....

                            you won't realize how much stuff is made from delicate or intricate aluminum.... that can best be joined/repaired with AC TIG....

                            Until you are in a position where you are without it..............

                            And a spoolgun would be like driving a Mack truck in an autocross.....


                            BTW... the Sync 210 is 120/240 capable
                            Last edited by H80N; 12-21-2016, 08:10 AM.
                            .

                            *******************************************
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                            “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

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                            • #44
                              The turning point for me and my welding capabilities was all because of aluminum, of which I said I'd never have a need to weld. Then one day, my buddy pulls in with a golf cart that needed some repair to the substructure, made from aluminum. We did battle on that thing using my old, small MIG trying to push .030 wire down the lead. Managed to get it done, after more than our share of expletives were spilled. Then the very next day another buddy brought over a big ole aluminum bench needing repair and it was too thick for me and my limited gear. And that spiraled out of control...those jobs would be cake with my machines now. I wish every job that came into the shop was aluminum. I just really enjoy it.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by ryanjones2150 View Post
                                Your bid algorithm is more complete than mine and it makes sense. <br />
                                <br />
                                On the 200 vs 215 comparison, what's the duty cycle difference? <br />
                                <br />
                                It appears to me that the 200 was never marketed as a hobbyist machine while the 215 is, which probably accounts for then industrial strength upgrades. I wonder what the difference is in the components in the guts. On an industrial machines are the circuit board components of better quality? Or even the circuit board itself? Some of the electro-magicians here might know....Wayne....Heiti....Cruizer would certainly know.
                                Haven't taken enough welders apart to say for sure like Cruizer could, but in the industrial world I came from, there are a number of things that say "industrial" in a piece of equipment. Robust mechanical design with metal parts where cheaper stuff has plastic. Or, if plastic is essential for insulation or other properties, you can choose an expensive good grade, or cheap stuff that might work fine for 5-10 years but then become very brittle and break. Sometimes less integration of parts such as controls, switches, etc mechanically mounted and wired rather than just soldered to a board and placed to stick through the front panel. Makes repairs of more failure-prone parts much less expensive. (I have heard unconfirmed reports that if you drop something and break off the main rotary control on the red MP210, you have to buy a new very expensive front display board because it is integral -perhaps someone can confirm or clarify that). Had a great example of the integration issue last week. Working on a 2006 Yukon with a heater blower that would keep running even with the key off. In the "old days" that was pretty much impossible, and if it did happen you replaced a $20 switch. With integrated computer controls, had to replace the resistor/controller module for a hundred bucks. Thank you, GM.

                                Also, Different fundamental design approaches might be used. There are "cheap" approaches to designing a circuit for a specific function that will work, but may not be as solid or stable as a more robust design. The "good enough" method. Component selection may or may not come into play. Integrated circuits are often available in MIL, industrial, and general use grades. Hard to say what might be selected by a designer with a DTC (design to cost) goal-and almost every engineer has one. Also, component derating is sometimes a place to save a buck. For example, if calculations say a certain resistor will dissipate 1/2 watt, standard design practice would be to use a 1 watt resistor. A more robust design might use a 2 watt. Heat is the enemy of electronics.

                                There are are lots of other examples but this is already long. In short, buy good tools! Think about drills, grinders, etc. there is a difference in quality.

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