Diversion 165 Problem "Poped then smoked"

[ggodwin]

You are not kidding. We had to put it on a car lift just to roll it into the back of my truck.

It it looks new. Welded good compared to what I'm used to.

unfortunately, I am not going to be able to play around and learn the various settings.

I need to jump right in and get a project completed.

can someone give me some baseline settings for welding 6061 aluminum.

[H80N]

You are not kidding. We had to put it on a car lift just to roll it into the back of my truck.

It it looks new. Welded good compared to what I'm used to.

unfortunately, I am not going to be able to play around and learn the various settings.

I need to jump right in and get a project completed.

can someone give me some baseline settings for welding 6061 aluminum.

Baseline Settings to start (adjust from there)

AC HF cont

1amp per thousanth of thickness to start

AC Balance set to "7"

15CFH Argon flow

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This TIG Guidelines booklet should help too

https://www.millerwelds.com/~/media/miller%20electric/files/pdf/resources/bookspamphlets/gtawbook.pdf

[ggodwin]

Thank you! I'll give it a good work out tomorrow.

[H80N]

FWIW.................. this would be a really good time to replace the coolant with new fresh..............

[pat h]

As long as you have the power requirements to run the 250 it will be a huge step forward for you

[ggodwin]

As long as you have the power requirements to run the 250 it will be a huge step forward for you

I think that is my only problem now. Too much draw for the old circuit.

[H80N]

I think that is my only problem now. Too much draw for the old circuit.

it wants to see 92Amps @ 230Volts for full output

if you have a smaller service just run it at lower output levels

at least till you can get rewired for enough amps to provide full output

how big is your present service..??

[ggodwin]

I haven't moved it down into my basement yet which is where my shop is. Right now it is in my garage and I plugged my 30' extension cord into my dryer outlet. I'm not sure what it is. I just know it's not enough. I think it's a 50 amp circuit. (But, I'm not sure)

[H80N]

I haven't moved it down into my basement yet which is where my shop is. Right now it is in my garage and I plugged my 30' extension cord into my dryer outlet. I'm not sure what it is. I just know it's not enough. I think it's a 50 amp circuit. (But, I'm not sure)

am guessing the dryer outlet is probably 30amps.... and depending on gauge the ext cord can cause a significant voltage drop...

If true.... you could probably run about 100Amps output

[ggodwin]

Do you think a 100 amp breaker and not using the extension cord would be enough? The extension cord is much thinner than the power cord for the welder. The wire is 10 awg. I'm certain there's a large drop with it.

I can probably plug the power cord into that outlet directly.

[H80N]

Do you think a 100 amp breaker and not using the extension cord would be enough? The extension cord is much thinner than the power cord for the welder. The wire is 10 awg. I'm certain there's a large drop with it.

I can probably plug the power cord into that outlet directly.

100Amp would be fine..... provided it is properly wired with the correct gauge wire (6 or 8 gauge..???)....
and that the service has the reserve capacity to support it

[Aeronca41]

To be completely legal-and fully indemnified with your insurance company should there ever be a fire-you will need larger wire. NEC Table 630.11(A) provides the fractional multiplier factors for welder feed conductors. If your welder says 92 A input at rated output power, and a 60% Duty Cycle, the conductor Ampacity required is 92 x 0.78 = 71.76 amps. This then leads you to Table 310.15(B)(16). Using the 75 degr column for copper, (since your outlet will likely be rated at 75 degr, and the lowest-rated component determines to circuit's allowable temp), you would need #4 or larger wire to be legal. If you use aluminum wire, you will need #3 or #2. Now, will it weld on lower than max output at less than 60%duty cycle? Sure-by a lot-but it would not be code compliant.

To confirm H80N's statement on wire size-practically, you could do a lot of welding with #6 or even #8 feed wire, Section 630.12(B) allows for a circuit breaker feeding a welder circuit to be rated at up to 200% of the ampacity of the conductors. Thus, even #8 (copper, rated @50 a), would be OK by code with a 100 amp breaker, and obviously the heavier #6 would be better. Just don't make the mistake of running wire that meets your present needs and then have to tear it out and replace with larger sometime in the future. Always better to only pay once.

[ggodwin]

I'm getting too much information. My uncle who is an electrician recommends a 50 amp breaker and 00 gauge wire. This seems like a ginormous size wire. Common sense tells me that I need to match the power cord that is coming into the machine.

would a 50amp circuit and #4 wire be enough?

[Stefen7]

am guessing the dryer outlet is probably 30amps.... and depending on gauge the ext cord can cause a significant voltage drop...

If true.... you could probably run about 100Amps output

Is there a formula, or is that an approximation based on experience? It seems to be a common question for people who are, temporarily or permanently, running their welder on a smaller service than required by the manual.

Some people have a limited input, and just increase welding amps until the breaker trips. But that assumes the breaker is the weakest link, and is functioning properly.


But what about those who want a specific output, lower than maximum, and need to determine the proper input wire and breaker?
There was a question asked recently about a Dialarc H-F on an under-sized breaker, that was never answered. (The poster decided to not buy the welder).

For that case, information from O-M 315H, SN: JB 510828
There are 5 rated outputs listed for stick and AC/DC TIG, (pg 12), 3 amp ranges, with 6 volt-amp curve lines on two charts (pg 17), and one fuse recommendation (pg 15). Evidently it is confusing to many people.

It is not as simple as looking at the volt-amp curve and determining output watts, because that does not include the loss due to machine efficiency. (For example, at rated load, my 61F has a 4500 watt output and 10,350 watt input, for efficiency of about 43%. And requires a breaker with 13,800 watt capacity, which is 300% of output).


The poster wanted about 250 amps output. So assuming 250 amps for AC / DC and TIG / stick, what breaker would he need? The required fuse is 150 amps, but that is for 310 amp output, not 250 amp.

The rated input is 90 amps @ 250 output, but that does not give any ‘cushion,’ and presumably a 90 amp breaker would trip. Would a 100 amp breaker be enough?


A solution that has been suggested, is to size the wire for continuous load at 250 amps, (90 amp input); use a full-load (150 amp) breaker to handle peak load at 250 amps; and skip doing the complicated math of sizing the breaker properly. But that violates code and requires the operator to be very aware of the amp setting and duty cycle. It also assumes there is enough 230v available to supply peak demand.

This topic comes up frequently, and could make a good ‘sticky,’ except getting into a risky grey area of breakers and wiring deviating from the O-M and possibly violating code.

[Stefen7]

I'm getting too much information. My uncle who is an electrician recommends a 50 amp breaker and 00 gauge wire. This seems like a ginormous size wire. Common sense tells me that I need to match the power cord that is coming into the machine.

would a 50amp circuit and #4 wire be enough?

I don't have Sync 250 manual in front of me, but it should be similar to the 250 Dialarc H-F.

That requires 150 amp / 230 volt breaker and #3 wire.

It all depends on how much you are going to crank it up, which is the reason for my question posted above.