Mild Steel hardfacing electrode

[Olivero]

Hello Fellow Welders,

I am trying to find a good hardfacing electrode for metal to metal abrasion, the piece I Have is a mild steel square with a tapered slot in the center that a bolt head is forced into when a seat is locked into position. The metal is about 1/8" or 3/16" thick and has worn away really bad to a point of the seat not being able to lock in at all and the slot is pretty much an open hole at this point.

Getting the seat off the unit and down to my workshop is a pain, plus the piece is a weldment not an easibly replacable part so I would like to just throw some good ol' abrasion resistant magic powder dust on it and call it good for a few years. Any ideas?

[tarry99]

Interesting thought the hardfacing concept that is!............and really hard to fully understand from here what part or parts and how they fit that your having issue with........I would not think that the locking mechanism by itself is all that supports the integrity of that seat mount?..........If this is a lock of sorts it's job is just to lock it into a position of a non-structural nature.............Look elsewhere to see why the seat frame is loose enough to have the continued force & movement that is destroying the part your looking to fix.........

[Olivero]

Well, the seat has brake pads that hold on to a rail which is really just a plate of steel, this mechanism is what keeps the handle in place with the pads on the rail to keep the seat from moving. I would post a picture of the damage if I had one but its really just a wear issue over time, not a one time incident.

You push the handle down and the bolt head slides up the tapered grove and is then jammed in place, that keeps the handle from moving back down and keeps the brake pads tight on the rail. The seat won't stay in place and just slides down. The pictures I put with my post is the entirety of the seats mechanisms, the only thing you can't see is the rail the pads sit on but as long as that bolt won't jam up and keep the handle in place, the pads won't be a tight fit on the rail and so the seat will move.

The handle controls the pads, when the pads clamp onto the rail, the bolt at the same time, is moving up the groove and jams, that keeps the handle in place from moving which then also keeps the pads on the rail so you are grinding the steel away, intentionally. The bolt is being forced into a tight spot in order to jam, so this result is inevitable.

Its a poorly designed mechanism in my opinion and while I outsmart the tech that originally did this I still need it to work and I think hardfacing it will do it good in the long run, took 2 1/2" years to get to this point, with some good metal to metal hardfacing it can probably go for even longer.

I will want to TIG it as that metal is 1/8" to 3/16" thick. I know Lincolcn sell some but wanted to get a good opinion from users.

[ryanjones2150]

Before I got into my current profession, I sold welding alloys. In that, I sort of carved out a niche by complete accident in targeting outfits that did a lot and had a need for better hardfacing and wearfacing products. I saw a need and learned about it, then went out and sold to them. I was a pretty good salesman too!<br />
<br />
So, if tig is your process, and coming from the depths of my mostly useless knowledge, and assuming they still carry that line, I can speak for and recommend Olympia-GT made and sold by Rockmount Research. You can find it at weldit.com. I have no idea what the minimum order is. If you can find your local sales rep, he might give you some to demo. I used to do that a lot. Small order customers where my bread and butter. I'd rather have a bunch of small order customers than a couple big order guys. <br />
<br />
This may not be your solution, but that's all I can come up with to help. If you call their 800 number, they have a metallurgist that could give you a better recommendation. I actually still call them once or twice a year asking technical questions. Great people when I worked there and still are as far as I can tell. <br />
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The Olympia-GT is good stuff, but it might wear out the other side of your mechanism! It's some tough stuff.

[Olivero]

Hey Ryan,

Thanks for the response, I emailed Rockmount about it and asked for a recommendation. I can also do it stick, just turn the dig down a bit and It should be fine. Got any ideas for stick electrodes?

My Airgas rep here seems to be rather unwilling to let me sample, usually told to just buy it.

[ryanjones2150]

If you can stick weld it, that opens up your options tremendously. I'd also say not to limit your alloy search to strictly hardfacing. There are buildup rods that would probably work just as well for what you want. I'm sure the Rockmount folks will recommend whatever they think will work best, hardfacing or otherwise. <br />
<br />
I remember selling the Midas M2 and H12 for cutting edges, but it seems like guys used it for metal to metal wear facing as well. I'll go dig out my old salesman book and see if I can find a better answer for you on the metal on metal wear stuff.

[Olivero]

Thank you, that would be much appreciated.

[ryanjones2150]

So according to my old book, they make the Midas line of hard facing in tig. <br />
<br />
Your best bet for getting a sample is to get the office ladies to put you in touch with your sales rep. I used to give samples out all the time. I'd go into a shop, find out what their problem welding jobs were, offer a solution and give them enough alloy to do the job. Sometimes that "sample" was out of my pocket. The office frowned on giving away a 44lbs roll of hardfacing you see. But I knew what product they were using and that my product would DESTROY that other stuff. Small investment would pay off. <br />
<br />
Anyway, if you can stick weld, I think Olympia-C is your solution. It's made for hard facing valves, forging and extrusion dies and work punches. Should handle it.

[aametalmaster]

Hey Ryan,

Got any ideas for stick electrodes?

I have some open boxes but its 5/32 dia...Bob

[Olivero]

Ryan, I will call the sales rep in my area today. Thanks for the help. Another concern I recently acquired is; if the metal is hardfaced, what happens to the bolt? Would it work to hardface both the bolt and the surface, that way it would be 2 extremely tough surfaces rubbing against each-other?

I have never done hardfacing and don't really know much about it, only read about it. Any advice would be appreciated.

Bob, 5/32" Would be too big. The plate is 1/8" or 3/16" thick.

[Meltedmetal]

You might want to consider case hardening. I've never used either of these products but case hardening can leave your part less brittle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tlsq2ESQz0

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/metal-prep-coloring/color-case-hardening/surface-hardening-compound-prod27119.aspx

[aametalmaster]

Bob, 5/32" Would be too big. The plate is 1/8" or 3/16" thick.

I found some 3/16" hardface TIG wire also. That stuff has been there awhile...Bob

[ryanjones2150]

I think some tig rod would be your best solution. Basically, when hard facing, you want that melt to lay on the surface with just enough dilution to adhere it. A lot of time hard facing is don't with an O&A torch for small parts because of that. Big loader buckets are more forgiving because they have the mass behind it. <br />
<br />
If Bob has some tig wire, that would be the way to go. But ask your sales rep, he may have something that would work just as good.

[Olivero]

Okay, TIG it is. IS there any specific wire I should use for this or any general use hardfacing TIG rod?

[ryanjones2150]

Such a small job, whatever you can get for free I'd say.