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Decision -- Do I get the Miller Diversion 180 or the Lincoln Square Wave 200

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  • Decision -- Do I get the Miller Diversion 180 or the Lincoln Square Wave 200

    Here's the comparison:
    Lincoln Square Wave 200 Miller Diversion 180
    $1,399.00 $2,075.00
    INPUT 120/230/1/50/60 120/230/1/50/60
    OUTPUT
    120V: 21A 110A/25%)
    26.5A 125A/35%
    17A 100A/40%
    14A 85A/60%
    11.3A 60A/100%
    230V:
    22A 200A/25%
    20A 180A/15%
    17A 160A/40%
    16A 150A/20%
    13A 130A/60%
    5.6A 60A/100%
    DIMENSIONS (H X W X D) 14.0 in x 10.75 in x 19.25 in 17.0 in x 9.875 in x 23.875 in
    NET WEIGHT 46.5 50
    AC FREQUENCY 60-150 HZ Preset
    AC BALANCE 60-90% Preset
    AC PULSE 0.1 - 20 PPS Preset
    POST FLOW
    WARRANTY Three Years One Year
    I plan on using the TIG to do aluminum repairs on various automotive engine blocks, components and transmissions. Price strongly favors the Lincoln. Miller has a duty cycle advantage at 110V, Lincoln has a duty cycle advantage at 230V. I noticed that the Miller uses "presets" on its AC Frequency, Balance and Pulse --isn't that a problem limiting flexibility?

    My budget is $1500-$2500 tops.
    Last edited by Auto_Tech; 09-12-2016, 10:28 AM.

  • #2
    I sell them both as well as a few others. My vote is the Miller...Bob
    Bob Wright

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Auto_Tech View Post
      ...I plan on using the TIG to do aluminum repairs on various automotive engine blocks, components and transmissions.....

      ....My budget is $1500-$2500 tops.
      I would submit that NEITHER one of those machines have the horsepower or duty cycle to effectively TIG weld those heavy aluminum castings.... Even with a Helium mix & preheat....

      AND... your budget is low for a proper new machine

      If I were you I would look for a used machine like the Syncrowave 250-350 class....

      that would match your needs and budget
      Last edited by H80N; 09-12-2016, 12:31 PM.
      .

      *******************************************
      The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

      “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

      Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

      My Blue Stuff:
      Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
      Dynasty 200DX
      Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
      Millermatic 200

      TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

      Comment


      • #4
        For sure aluminum takes some power. Me being hooked on alum welding with a spool gun for the last 39 years i am lost for what TIG to get...Bob
        Bob Wright

        Comment


        • #5
          Well I just bought two Lincoln SW200s if that means anything. The optional 2 years of warranty that cost me an extra $140 gets me a solid 5 years warranty. Rock solid and stupid simple but comes with some quality accessories like the copper contact ground clamp, Lincoln's version of flextorch which I have not been able to burn up yet, Smith dead on accurate flowgauge and high quality semi rigid gas hose for gas economy, and American made SCC controls foot pedal. I did put a heel clip on one already and is so nice.

          The pulse is stupid, and the capacitor discharge pop start is 25 amps, so alum soda cans are tough to start without starting your arc lay rod style on the filler, but it is doable. Has no pre or postflow adjustments but has not concerned me. I went this route to back up my Dynastys for field work that can plug into house current. So far no regrets.
          Nothing welded, Nothing gained

          Miller Dynasty700DX
          3 ea. Miller Dynasty350DX
          Miller Dynasty200DX
          ThermalArc 400 GTSW
          MillerMatic350P
          MillerMatic200 with spoolgun
          MKCobraMig260
          Lincoln SP-170T
          Linde UCC305 (sold 2011)
          Hypertherm 1250
          Hypertherm 800
          PlasmaCam CNC cutter
          Fadal Toolroom CNC Mill
          SiberHegner CNC Mill
          2 ea. Bridgeport
          LeBlond 15" Lathe
          Haberle 18" Cold Saw
          Doringer 14" Cold Saw
          6 foot x 12 foot Mojave granite

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by shovelon View Post
            Well I just bought two Lincoln SW200s if that means anything. The optional 2 years of warranty that cost me an extra $140 gets me a solid 5 years warranty. Rock solid and stupid simple but comes with some quality accessories like the copper contact ground clamp, Lincoln's version of flextorch which I have not been able to burn up yet, Smith dead on accurate flowgauge and high quality semi rigid gas hose for gas economy, and American made SCC controls foot pedal. I did put a heel clip on one already and is so nice.

            The pulse is stupid, and the capacitor discharge pop start is 25 amps, so alum soda cans are tough to start without starting your arc lay rod style on the filler, but it is doable. Has no pre or postflow adjustments but has not concerned me. I went this route to back up my Dynastys for field work that can plug into house current. So far no regrets.
            Terry

            am REALLY curious to see how they perform & hold up in the long run...........

            PLS keep us posted.....
            .

            *******************************************
            The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

            “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

            Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

            My Blue Stuff:
            Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
            Dynasty 200DX
            Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
            Millermatic 200

            TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

            Comment


            • #7
              I agree with H80N, neither of those machines are good choices for welding on engine blocks, heads or transmission housings. Cast aluminum is tough to weld, you need adjustability and power. Lots of power to weld aluminum. <br />
              <br />
              I also think you will out grow those machines very quick. You'd be money ahead of you moved straight into a higher end machine, even if it's a used one. I speak from experience. My first aluminum tig machine was a "frankenwelder" scratch start from a high freq box and a thunderbolt. Then I moved into a basic tig machine and was ready for something bigger and better within the first month. I wasted A LOT of money doing it the hard way.

              Comment


              • #8
                Auto_Tech,

                Check this out-

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg91XxNFYts

                Make your own decision. Put some cash back in your pocket.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by H80N View Post

                  I would submit that NEITHER one of those machines have the horsepower or duty cycle to effectively TIG weld those heavy aluminum castings.... Even with a Helium mix & preheat....

                  AND... your budget is low for a proper new machine

                  If I were you I would look for a used machine like the Syncrowave 250-350 class....

                  that would match your needs and budget


                  Thank you --- they're most impressive but just way beyond my small budget. I sure wish I could afford them but for a small shop (me and two other part time auto techs) that's pretty big money.

                  I thought I could just multi-pass the TIG over small to medium cracks in aluminum bell housings (for example). Needed the penetration vs cleaning settings since I'm dealing with cast alum that typically has oil, trans fluid residuals. I'm a slightly better than average MIG welder and have tried MIG (and also Oxy/A) on cast aluminum ----it's IMPOSSIBLE because of the (hidden) aluminum oxides and residual automotive fluids. I know why MIG failed, but I'm not sure about Oxy/A --- possible a flux issue, not sure.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Andyman1 View Post
                    Auto_Tech,

                    Check this out-

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg91XxNFYts

                    Make your own decision. Put some cash back in your pocket.


                    Wow Jody can lay down some stacked dimes --- awesome.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Auto_Tech View Post


                      I thought I could just multi-pass the TIG over small to medium cracks in aluminum bell housings (for example). Needed the penetration vs cleaning settings since I'm dealing with cast alum that typically has oil, trans fluid residuals. I'm a slightly better than average MIG welder and have tried MIG (and also Oxy/A) on cast aluminum ----it's IMPOSSIBLE because of the (hidden) aluminum oxides and residual automotive fluids. I know why MIG failed,
                      Let me tell you about welding auto castings as i have done them with a MIG for the last 39 years. 99% can't be welded in one perfect pass. One reason which you said is oil. Sometimes i grind, weld, grind and weld again until you get a clean, solid weld. You just have to. I also weld aluminum wheels which have rubber, dirt and sometimes JB Weld in the crack. So a perfect weld is required there to hold air plus the strength of the wheel...Bob
                      Bob Wright

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by H80N View Post

                        Terry

                        am REALLY curious to see how they perform & hold up in the long run...........

                        PLS keep us posted.....
                        That is why I opted for 5 years warranty Heiti. I have mine over at a vacuum chamber test lab this morning doing some upgrades to the interior of one. Never fails to start an arc, and pedal range is excellent. I may invest in a CK belted finger control like I have on my Dynasty in another couple of months. The engineers were ogling over it when I plugged into 115volt outlet. Still though not as versatile as my 200DX. Wish it had a better pulse.
                        Nothing welded, Nothing gained

                        Miller Dynasty700DX
                        3 ea. Miller Dynasty350DX
                        Miller Dynasty200DX
                        ThermalArc 400 GTSW
                        MillerMatic350P
                        MillerMatic200 with spoolgun
                        MKCobraMig260
                        Lincoln SP-170T
                        Linde UCC305 (sold 2011)
                        Hypertherm 1250
                        Hypertherm 800
                        PlasmaCam CNC cutter
                        Fadal Toolroom CNC Mill
                        SiberHegner CNC Mill
                        2 ea. Bridgeport
                        LeBlond 15" Lathe
                        Haberle 18" Cold Saw
                        Doringer 14" Cold Saw
                        6 foot x 12 foot Mojave granite

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by shovelon View Post

                          That is why I opted for 5 years warranty Heiti. I have mine over at a vacuum chamber test lab this morning doing some upgrades to the interior of one. Never fails to start an arc, and pedal range is excellent. I may invest in a CK belted finger control like I have on my Dynasty in another couple of months. The engineers were ogling over it when I plugged into 115volt outlet. Still though not as versatile as my 200DX. Wish it had a better pulse.
                          a vacuum/high altitude chamber will certainly help highlight weak insulation in the HV sections....

                          Used to prep CRT displays for our non pressurized high altitude flights

                          you would be amazed at how much flyback corona we had to suppress with copious amounts of glyptol....

                          otherwise the crt electronics would self destruct at about 20K feet alt (pretty spectacular show... catastrophic fail)
                          Last edited by H80N; 09-13-2016, 11:42 AM.
                          .

                          *******************************************
                          The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

                          “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

                          Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

                          My Blue Stuff:
                          Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
                          Dynasty 200DX
                          Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
                          Millermatic 200

                          TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Auto_Tech View Post



                            Thank you --- they're most impressive but just way beyond my small budget. I sure wish I could afford them but for a small shop (me and two other part time auto techs) that's pretty big money.

                            I thought I could just multi-pass the TIG over small to medium cracks in aluminum bell housings (for example). Needed the penetration vs cleaning settings since I'm dealing with cast alum that typically has oil, trans fluid residuals. I'm a slightly better than average MIG welder and have tried MIG (and also Oxy/A) on cast aluminum ----it's IMPOSSIBLE because of the (hidden) aluminum oxides and residual automotive fluids. I know why MIG failed, but I'm not sure about Oxy/A --- possible a flux issue, not sure.
                            There are plenty of used machines in the Syncrowave 250-350 class out there within your budget range

                            Where in the country are you located..??
                            .

                            *******************************************
                            The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

                            “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

                            Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

                            My Blue Stuff:
                            Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
                            Dynasty 200DX
                            Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
                            Millermatic 200

                            TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by H80N View Post

                              There are plenty of used machines in the Syncrowave 250-350 class out there within your budget range

                              Where in the country are you located..??

                              I'm near Richmond, VA and definitely looking at used Syncrowaves now --- just looked at a lightly used 210 Multi-process --- a step up from where I was originally looking. AirGas Outlet has this new 200 too (not quite the 250-350 class however):

                              http://airgasoutlet.com/products/mil...fully-equipped
                              Last edited by Auto_Tech; 09-13-2016, 07:26 PM.

                              Comment

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