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C100 on Multimatic 200 and new Miller 211

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  • C100 on Multimatic 200 and new Miller 211

    What does the C100 setting do in the software, in terms of changing the apparent power supply inductance, voltage, etc.

    Can anyone who has used C100 much comment on the weld quality, penetration, etc. ?

    Thanks.

  • #2
    Originally posted by mongobird View Post
    What does the C100 setting do in the software, in terms of changing the apparent power supply inductance, voltage, etc.

    Can anyone who has used C100 much comment on the weld quality, penetration, etc. ?

    Thanks.
    As far as I know ............. C100 is just 100% CO2 MIG shielding gas....... better penetration & bit more spatter.....
    .

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    • #3
      Its a setting for the gas being used. I like 75/25 for most jobs esp thinner steel. Less splatter. 100% CO2 is for thicker steels more penetration and costs less...Bob
      C25 is 75/25
      C100 is 100% CO2
      Bob Wright

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      • #4
        Frustrated, I have done some digging on this to try to get answers.

        The several LWS that I talked with essentially said, "The C100 switch position is there to remind you what gas you are using. The welder is just a power supply, and can't counteract the splatter inherent in CO2/C100 welding."

        That didn't fit my recollection of the C100 program, so I called Miller Tech support. Twice. I kind of got two answers. First I was told that C100 changed the wire speed and voltage, and that was it. Nothing else. Second call I was told that C100 is a process reminder and it just reminds you as to what gas you are using. I asked if it changed voltage, wire speed, or even inductance and was told no.

        So then I went to a small town LWS where the lone sales guy claims to know little about welding. He said this:
        1. Voltage is changed in C100 vs C25
        2. Wire feed is also changed. C100 is a hotter process variant, and adjustments are necessary to make the program modes in the welders have reasonably accurate auto set.
        3. Then he said what I was waiting for, and that is that the software in the inverter changed the apparent inductance thereby changing the arc characteristics. The effect of this change was to substantially reduce splatter. Not eliminate it, but cut it back.
        4. I asked if he had tried welding with C100 on a new 211 and a Multimatic 200. He said he had done both, and also used welders with transformers, and welders with inverters without advertised C100 settings. So? He said that there was substantial reduction with the new 211 and the Multimatic 200 C100 program settings, and while it didn't eliminate splatter, it reduced it substantially in his tests, so that in some welds there was very little BB cleanup. Almost enough to ignore.

        So it seems that Miller has a competitive advantage in the hobby MIG machine area, where the inverters have explicit C100 programming. Why don't the tech support, and the sales, and the dealers know this? Why does it come down to a one man LWS outpost office guy who seems to know the product well enough to provide clear descriptions of what goes on, AND has had the experience of trying the machines in A/B testing environments?

        As near as I have determined, only Miller has specific programming for C100. If anyone knows otherwise, I would love to hear what welders have implemented optimizations for C100.

        One more thing he told me which might be of general interest...when welding with C100 (and he argues it is really MAG welding, not MIG welding) the penetration looks like a deep "U" with C100. With C25, it looks more like a wider "V", and one should keep in mind that profile when welding and concerned about penetration.

        Oh, he said that years ago he worked for a really big outfit, and they had only one of thousands of customers who used CO2 (C100), so one day when he visited them he asked why they used C100. They said it was simple: it cost less, and their welds on their products were not visible in the finished product.

        My conclusion is that there is a Miller inverter feature, the C100 setting, that is being under marketed, and may be under utilized by us hobbyists and some industrial or commercial users. I get it that switching bottles or even hoses or even throwing a valve on the gas for MIG can be a pain. But on the other hand if it reduces cost, for some the savings might be welcome.

        Finally, if anyone else has some experience with C100 and in particular with C100 on an inverter welder with specific programming for C100, I would love to hear your thoughts.

        I hope this helps someone else.

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        • #5
          That's quite a lot you were there....I use Co2 from time to time, but I don't have the fancy schmancy settings for it like your machine does. Generally, I use it for a a bit more penetration if I need it. For example, if I need to take my little 115v MIG out of my shop, I'll probably take the CO2 bottle with me. But lately, I just use flux core. Ya, you have some more spatter with CO2, the puddle is a little hotter it seems, but really, if you need more heat you just need a bigger machine. Or just multi-pass it. You're machine size selection is limited in its abilities due to its size. Maybe the CO2 will help you. It's certainly the cheapest of the shielding gases, as to how much, maybe Bob can answer that. And as to why you've had such a hard time getting the answer you're looking for, ever from Miller....that is a good question. The question I have is what happened to setting the machine up for the wire, gas and metal you're welding without all the "auto" presets? Trial and error holds many valuable lessons to be learned, much more so that the auto-doofloppy on machines these days. I say, learn your machine, learn how it welds in different positions and with different gases and you will be leaps and bounds a better weldor for it.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by ryanjones2150 View Post
            It's certainly the cheapest of the shielding gases, as to how much, maybe Bob can answer that.
            That i can. These are prices for a 125 cu ft cyl which is a hobbyist size...Bob
            CO2 $16.90
            75/25 $29.00
            Argon $26.50
            Nitrogen $16.20
            Bob Wright

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            • #7
              I miss the "old fashioned" mig welders from not long ago. I do not like the Auto Set at all. In fact i don't even want it on my machine. Not really fancy on the digital controls either. I have been playing with a new brand/model and can't wait to really get into it. Guess i learned the old way...Bob
              Last edited by aametalmaster; 09-16-2016, 06:10 AM.
              Bob Wright

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              • #8
                Originally posted by aametalmaster View Post

                That i can. These are prices for a 125 cu ft cyl which is a hobbyist size...Bob
                CO2 $16.90
                75/25 $29.00
                Argon $26.50
                Nitrogen $16.20
                Nitrogen is not a viable MIG/MAG gas as far as I know.

                While 20# of CO2 is about $16.35 here, one must remember that even though the cylinder is similar to a 60 cu ft C25 sylinder, 20# of CO2 expands to 175 cu ft at normal atmospheric pressure.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by mongobird View Post

                  Nitrogen is not a viable MIG/MAG gas as far as I know.
                  Right. I just listed it because the other day we were talking about N2 for a back purge gas for TIG, so i listed this size cylinder.
                  Our Co2 for that price is a 30# cylinder, i didn't mention that. And we have sold/swapped zero of them since i started here 5 months ago.
                  ...Bob
                  Bob Wright

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                  • #10
                    The possibility to change the inductance has been around since they created the inverter machines.
                    The Passport was first in the small portable units along with the next versions Passport Plus and Multimatic 200, and now with the MM211.

                    The Passport has a selector switch for SS, Mild, Aluminum. Basic beginnings of inductance control.

                    The Passports weld fantastic using CO2.
                    Ed Conley
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by aametalmaster View Post

                      Right. I just listed it because the other day we were talking about N2 for a back purge gas for TIG, so i listed this size cylinder.
                      Our Co2 for that price is a 30# cylinder, i didn't mention that. And we have sold/swapped zero of them since i started here 5 months ago.
                      ...Bob
                      You have negotiated great gas prices, compared to my local market, and my being a small time user.

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