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Millermatic 200 vs 211 ?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by ryanjones2150 View Post
    I have zero experience with welding on aircraft, but I have welded plenty of 4130 tubing for roll cages in race cars. I choose the tig process on all 4130 because I can control the heat. Just don't get in a hurry and let it heat up properly. It's done exactly like that all the time. My preference for filler metal on 4130 is er80sd2. If I don't have any, or not in the size I want, I have no problem using er70s2 or er70s6. <br />
    <br />
    Learning to tig on small tubing is about the worst way ever to learn to tig. About the only way to make it worse is if you did the same learning process on aluminum tubing. <br />
    <br />
    MIG welding on 4130 is also done all the time with great success, by both pros and garage mechanics. I choose the tig process over mig because I simply refuse to allow even one tiny chance of anything to endanger my driver. That goes for all my welds. <br />
    <br />
    If you do choose to MIG, use good quality wire that is made to a set standard every time. Not like horrible freight welding wire that some YouTube channels say is just fine for the hobby welder. I say bullbutter.
    Spoken as a wise man! And airplanes are potentially even more unforgiving than race cars. Quality parts, quality processes, quality materials, and never a hint of "that's good enough". Best of the best , always. As Ryan says, who wants to be responsible for a dead or maimed driver or pilot? Who wants to be a mile up in the air wondering if all of the welds keeping you there had sufficient penetration, or might be brittle? Not me! When I look at OA welded wing attachment fittings, I think about how I'm literally and completely trusting my life to these beautiful welds made by some guy or gal in Lock Haven, PA or Middletown, OH in the 1930s or 1940s. It's a bit sobering. I'm even afraid to buy AN bolts these days unless it's from a trusted supplier with traceability.

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    • #17
      I imagine airplanes can be way worse than race cars. If a race car comes apart going down the track, it won't necessarily drive you head first into the ground at terminal velocity!

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Aeronca41 View Post

        I think about how I'm literally and completely trusting my life to these beautiful welds made by some guy or gal in Lock Haven, PA or Middletown, OH in the 1930s or 1940s..
        How about the old Taylorcrafts that were made in Alliance Oh right up the road from me...Bob
        Bob Wright

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        • #19
          Originally posted by aametalmaster View Post
          How about the old Taylorcrafts that were made in Alliance Oh right up the road from me...Bob
          Yep-shouldn't have left them out. Actually, in the history of old airplanes, OH is a pretty special place, (spoken as an understatement!). Slight trivia hi-jack: Taylorcrafts were wonderful machines, and many people don't know that Gil Taylor designed the Taylor E-2 Cub that Walt Jamouneau refined into the J-2 while Taylor was on sick leave, and hence the evolution to the J-3. I think it safe to say Taylor was the concept man for the Piper Cub. (Some say the "J" in J-3 was for Jamouneau--who knows?). Taylor fired him when he got back, but Bill Piper was the $ behind Taylor, and rehired Jamouneau - the old saw about "he who has the money makes the rules" certainly applied here. There was quite the argument, apparently, and Taylor moved to Alliance, Ohio and built a faster, side-by-side airplane which had great sales appeal. We had a BC-12D when I was a kid. Bought it as a worn-out basket case for $600 as I remember. Rebuilt it and had some great flying and finally sold it for something between 2-3 grand. Only way dad could afford to fly was to make it a paying proposition.
          Last edited by Aeronca41; 09-05-2016, 09:27 PM.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Aeronca41 View Post

            Yep-shouldn't have left them out. Actually, in the history of old airplanes, OH is a pretty special place, (spoken as an understatement!). Slight trivia hi-jack: Taylorcrafts were wonderful machines, and many people don't know that Gil Taylor designed the Taylor E-2 Cub that Walt Jamouneau refined into the J-2 while Taylor was on sick leave, and hence the evolution to the J-3. I think it safe to say Taylor was the concept man for the Piper Cub. (Some say the "J" in J-3 was for Jamouneau--who knows?). Taylor fired him when he got back, but Bill Piper was the $ behind Taylor, and rehired Jamouneau - the old saw about "he who has the money makes the rules" certainly applied here. There was quite the argument, apparently, and Taylor moved to Alliance, Ohio and built a faster, side-by-side airplane which had great sales appeal. We had a BC-12D when I was a kid. Bought it as a worn-out basket case for $600 as I remember. Rebuilt it and had some great flying and finally sold it for something between 2-3 grand. Only way dad could afford to fly was to make it a paying proposition.
            Wayne

            Great history and personal highlights..... THANKS..!!!!
            .

            *******************************************
            The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

            “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

            Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

            My Blue Stuff:
            Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
            Dynasty 200DX
            Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
            Millermatic 200

            TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

            Comment


            • #21
              Old guys reminisce......

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              • #22
                I agree, the MM200 is heavy and mostly used as an industrial duty welder.The MM211 is portable, lightweight and easier to use. I am attending a welding certification course in weldtech training and we use the MM211 in workshops.
                Last edited by aametalmaster; 09-07-2016, 12:29 PM.

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                • #23
                  I stopped in at a local Airgas yesterday and looked over the syncwave 210. The touch pad and the rotary dials felt a little light weight. The front castors are junk but look like they can be replaced with some that have bearing axles and locks so it does not roll around in my garage here in SF. (All the old SF garages have drains and the floors are sloped.).

                  The feedback I have received from A&P's is that I should consider this unit and a very good set of smaller OA torches. Between these two sets I could have TIG covered well, Gas covered well, and could do stick and spool gun MIG should the need arise.

                  In the end, I would b spending like $4K buy the time I am done. But, I would hope that this would be the last purchase a home hobby guy would every need for welding anything.

                  James.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Paying a bit more once is generally cheaper than paying twice because you went in the cheap. Sounds to me like you have a good plan. I'm interested-did any of the A&Ps you talked to have anything to say about mig for airplanes?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Aeronca41 View Post
                      Paying a bit more once is generally cheaper than paying twice because you went in the cheap. Sounds to me like you have a good plan. I'm interested-did any of the A&Ps you talked to have anything to say about mig for airplanes?
                      +1................

                      I would add one suggestion..... find a local community college that offers a welding class that includes TIG

                      to get a good grounding in the correct TIG basics............ AND have FUN.....
                      .

                      *******************************************
                      The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

                      “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

                      Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

                      My Blue Stuff:
                      Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
                      Dynasty 200DX
                      Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
                      Millermatic 200

                      TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        QUOTE=Aeronca41;n571835]Paying a bit more once is generally cheaper than paying twice because you went in the cheap. Sounds to me like you have a good plan. I'm interested-did any of the A&Ps you talked to have anything to say about mig for airplanes?[/QUOTE]

                        They basically said use gas or TIG. In Page's Book "Aircraft Service Manual" c.1934, he goes into great length on the subject of gas vs. the new electric arc welding for aircraft. In his section on fixing fuselage tubes, the diagrams used are obviously the ones that the FAA uses on their welding circulars in 2016 that Page created in 1938!

                        The sections covering the basics are really great and anyone wanting to know about basics on gas welding, this is a great book in those chapters.

                        James.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          FAA...aircraft welding pdf

                          http://www.faa.gov/regulations_polic...a/ama_Ch05.pdf

                          ........................

                          http://www.faa.gov/regulations_polic...rame_handbook/

                          Aircraft Welding, NAVPERS 10322A (1953)

                          https://archive.org/details/AircraftWelding10322A



                          Miller TIG Guidelines

                          https://www.millerwelds.com/~/media/...s/gtawbook.pdf

                          TIG Resources

                          https://www.millerwelds.com/resource...ding-resources

                          Last edited by H80N; 09-07-2016, 05:45 PM.
                          .

                          *******************************************
                          The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

                          “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

                          Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

                          My Blue Stuff:
                          Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
                          Dynasty 200DX
                          Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
                          Millermatic 200

                          TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Great collection of good stuff! Thanks.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Aeronca41 View Post

                              And airplanes are potentially even more unforgiving than race cars.
                              Yes / No.............But for sure the added QC on the airplanes if done properly as it should be en-tales a few more added process's like: Pre & Post heating stress relieving joints and also inert gas purging on the inside of the tube or structure being welded.

                              Hardly do we ever do that in a 4130 tube chassis Drag Race Car that is specked By SFI. Unless the part has to be heat-treated after the fact then special filler rod like a ER80sb6 or ER502 is called out including purging the innards with a suitable inert gas like Argon........

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                              • #30
                                New MM200 or Multimatic 200. Don't know why companies reuse old model numbers for new models...Bob

                                But it won't AC TIG weld alum but spool gun ready...
                                Bob Wright

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