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MM 350p trouble shooting help

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  • ryanjones2150
    replied
    Bah!! What do those Miller tech guys know anyway? Clearly nothing about the proper placement of styrofoam cups or duct tape!

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  • E350
    replied
    Update: When my wife came down to get me it was 12:15 a.m. and the machine had been on for 2 hours and 43 minutes without a hiccup. (I was cleaning up the shop checking up on it every few minutes.) Yesterday, I turned it on, and it started at my last setting, and I welded with it without problem. So, I think we've got this problem solved! Suggestion: Do not use dielectric grease in low-voltage (i.e., computer type) connections because when it dries out, dielectric grease (which is not conductive) can actually interrupt/impede low voltage signals. Instead, use a contact enhancer such as Stabilant 22 or Deoxit Gold G5.

    Mr. Jones: You are incorrect. This is what the Miller Tech said in response to my emailed photos:

    "The Styrofoam cup thing is not from the factory. I would take that out as soon as possible."

    But I think I will treat it as a factory "upgrade" as ryanjones2150 suggests and leave it alone until I can source, price and afford a new display board.

    Big Kudos Thanks and Shout Out to the Miller Tech guys who in an email pointed me to exactly to the component which had the problem!

    Those Miller Tech guys and gals know their stuff and are willing to help.

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  • ryanjones2150
    replied
    That's clearly a factory "cup and tape" upgrade. Big money right there, especially if it's high density styrofoam and 3M duct tape. You lucky devil.

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  • Aeronca41
    replied
    That us just super! Hope the cleaning does it for you. The cup may continue to compress and reduce pressure over years-keep an eye on it, and you know where to look if problems return.

    Great links on grease and Stabilant22. Thanks! I'm putting a new gas tank on my E350 today and will only put silicon grease on the non-electrical parts of the connectors. Also, the carb cleaning rods were a good idea I wouldn't have thought of. I have a pretty broad sent of dentist tools for such work. A favorite is the "spoon cleaner" they use for cleaning inside the tooth after drilling. It's like a very tiny spoon on a handle-great for reaching and cleaning.

    Heres hoping your 350p keeps humming!

    Leave a comment:


  • E350
    replied
    Yes, it was the "1000 VAC" written of the side of that beer canned-sized capacitor which got my attention...

    When I first turned the machine on this evening it booted as normal, but then in about 3 minutes it cycled off and was struggling to turn back on when I turned it off. Just the same problem which I reported above.

    Then I opened the cover and found what I found in the pictures.

    Then I used CRC QD Electronic Cleaner (contact cleaner) and my micro qtips were too big for the RC11 connector, so I used some of the ribbed cleaning rods in a set for cleaning carburetor passages and gently cleaned the female and male plugs. I think it was dielectric grease which had dried out which I pulled out, but I kept gently scraping and pulling crap out and spraying the contact cleaner with the little red tube dispenser into the plugs to flush the scraped debris out then let them dry a little and then sprayed a bunch of Deoxit Gold G5 contact enhancer in each of the plug ends and wiped the excess off the circuit board and plugged RC11 back together and put the machine's cover back on.

    Then I started it up. And now, it has now been a little over one hour since I turned it back on and the machine has just sat there, pretty as can be, set where I set it at 19.0 volts and 180 wire speed, holding steady not blinking not restarting, just sitting there steady. So, fingers crossed!

    It is too late this night to weld since my wife is asleep upstairs so I will have to wait until tomorrow to try to weld with it, but I think I may have fixed this issue.

    And I am leaving the Styrofoam cup repair alone, where it is...

    I am not a computer, electronics guy, or even an electrician but even I got a kick out of that guy’s soldering iron trick!

    But it wouldn't be the first time that dried out "DIE-electric" grease stopped a low voltage computer type connection. I don’t like dielectric grease. Read up on my thoughts on it here if you like:

    http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/13...cro-files.html

    I hope the following moral applies to this story:

    "Mechanics look to the component. Electricians look at the wiring."

    Leave a comment:


  • Aeronca41
    replied
    Originally posted by E350 View Post
    One more thing. Why did someone cut up and roll up and duct tape some Styrofoam cups and wedge them between the display board and the frame? What problem was that to solve? And did it solve it? Or does it relate to the existing problem? Or does it portend some problem to come?
    Now that is one fine repair method......there is obviously a crack or a bad connection of some sort in the board and someone found that a little pressure made it work, but apparently only "kinda". Not good. I would expect frustrating intermittent problems until the board is fixed or replaced. Probably sounds all too familiar to you....
    Sorry you got stuck with this.

    that fix is right up there with one I saw many years ago-opened a cabinet in a large computerized system and found a hot soldering iron-plugged in-hanging under a circuit card. Found the guy who did it-he said the card wouldn't work if it got cold.....

    Leave a comment:


  • Aeronca41
    replied
    Originally posted by E350 View Post
    Hey Aeronica41 what does this look like to you?
    It's a capacitor. Careful, they bite.

    Leave a comment:


  • E350
    replied
    One more thing. Why did someone cut up and roll up and duct tape some Styrofoam cups and wedge them between the display board and the frame? What problem was that to solve? And did it solve it? Or does it relate to the existing problem? Or does it portend some problem to come?

    Leave a comment:


  • E350
    replied
    Now on to the troubleshooting that the Miller tech suggested: one of which was checking the PC board connection RC11 to the Display board connection JP5. I have some micro qtips and some CRC Contact Cleaner and some DeOxit Gold Contact Enhancer, so after I post this, I am going out to clean up the RC11 connector.
    Last edited by E350; 08-21-2016, 09:24 AM.

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  • E350
    replied
    Hey Aeronca41 what does this look like to you?
    Last edited by E350; 08-21-2016, 09:21 AM.

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  • gnforge
    replied
    Yelp that's what I meant. <br />
    Hope ya find something

    Leave a comment:


  • Aeronca41
    replied
    I like the bumpy highway info--hope it means you're on the way to a nice cheap (no cost) fix. Those are the best kind! And once again, a great illustration of Miller quality support. These guys are a real standout from the crowd.

    Leave a comment:


  • E350
    replied
    gnforge by input wiring I assume that mean the wiring from the plug to the machine where it connects in the machine. If so, I will check that. In fact I will check from my 240v receptacle (I wired it) to my plug (I wired it) to the inside where it connects to the machine. And yes, I will turn off the circuit breaker and check the receptacle (with a light or multimeter) to assure that the receptacle is not hot before proceeding to check the receptacle. BTW, I just recently moved the machine 100 miles on a bumpy highway (CA does not spend money wisely on infrastructure), so it is quite possible that some connection vibrated loose. To your credit, you are not alone advising to look for loose connections. Here's what the Miller service tech said this morning:

    "It sounds to me like there is a connection issue between the main control board, and the front display board. I would suggested picking up some electrolytic grease (we use nyogel) from your local auto parts store and apply the grease to the following locations.

    PC1, RC11

    PC3, JP5

    Regards,
    John Herek
    Service Technician, Commercial Solutions Division"

    What a great company Miller is! I am so happy to receive a helpful email from Miller customer service rather than just being treated like a mushroom.

    I repost the MIller tech's advice here with my full understanding and a warning to others that it is my/our individual responsibility - and any others who read this -- to be safe - it is not Miller's, it is not this forum's, it is not mine or anybody else who posts in this thread. An arc welder is a very powerful source of electricity. Proceed at your own risk or have a professional service it for you!

    Edit: Aeronca41 the manual you linked has a wiring diagram in the back which shows the location of the pc board interconnects, etc. which the Miller Service Technician referenced in his email to me. Thank you buddy, that will be very helpful!
    Last edited by E350; 07-12-2016, 01:21 PM.

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  • gnforge
    replied
    If it is going blank and shows mm 350p sounds like it is restarting or starting from off. <br />
    Problem shouldn't be in gun as that is just a switch i.e. Contacter <br />
    If a contact becomes loose it will heat during use like welding then cool when not using as in stop welding. When cools sometimes will loose contact or drop voltage to low. <br />
    That is what would lead me to check input wiring first. <br />
    If you know someone you can trust that is qualified to inspect. I would still check wall plug and plug on end of input cable then simply pull cover and there is a panel where the input wire comes in with nuts that hold eyelets down. Check them for tightness and corrosion. <br />
    Had this happen to mine couple years ago, it was very similar. <br />
    All in all pretty simple to do if breaker is OFF. <br />
    Any electrician could do in 1/2 hour if u had cover off. <br />
    He could also check and blow out your other connectors in no time if he is trustworthy. <br />
    Just a thought. Hope it helps. Good luck

    Leave a comment:


  • Aeronca41
    replied
    Glad it was a help. It's always good to be aware of something that might bite you.

    Assumed you had the owners manual, but if not, here it is. There is a schematic but no details on the circuit boards. Miller does not generally make repair manuals available except to their techs. Very hard to come by. If you look on this web site under "Support" you will also find a parts manual for your machine.

    https://www.millerwelds.com/files/ow...O1327X_MIL.pdf

    Leave a comment:

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