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  • I Need help With My Welder

    I have a Miller Dial Arc HF AC / DC 12.4 KW 200 /230 60 HZ Serial # JGO 85495 I bought it about 1985 and have owned it for over 30 yrs it has served me well. Mostly thin wall 4130 tubing stainless .035 exhaust tubing and aluminum components for aircraft parts fabrication. Both for amateur and certified aircraft.

    In the Manual for my welder.

    On page 20 PDF File a depiction of the Hi Frequency selector switch is shown, it has a Start position with the switch up, a middle Off position, and a down Continuous position. When switched in the past there was a definite click, I assume it is a relay closing when switched from start to continuous in either direction. It currently is in the Continuous position and will weld aluminum fine, but will not switch back to Start. I have checked the toggle switch and it seems to work and have continuity, I suspect it might be the relay, on my machine the relay is a Porter Brumfield KUP11A55 with details as follows. Mine says 24Volt 50/60HZ Industrial Rated 3A 1/2 HR 600VAC 1/3 GP 120V AC Made in Mexico. But depicted on page 38 PDF File of the Manual is a break down of these relays, and I think the one that controls this function might be the #9 relay that is not working, Its PT# calls out for CR3 006393 relay 24VAC DPDT 10A/120VAC in the manual.

    The difference between the two could easily be the serial # when produced as it says when ordering parts to make sure the correct serial number is included, I am not an electrician, and am just guessing, so any help would be much appreciated as I have no idea where to take it for repair. I am located in the Portland Oregon Area thanks in advance for any helpful comments. Dave
    Last edited by Starduster History; 05-27-2016, 09:47 AM.

  • #2
    Have you tried to give the relay a sharp smack with a screwdriver to unstick the contacts...??

    is this the correct manual..??

    https://www.millerwelds.com/files/ow.../O315M_MIL.pdf

    .
    Last edited by H80N; 05-27-2016, 10:54 AM.
    .

    *******************************************
    The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

    “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

    Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

    My Blue Stuff:
    Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
    Dynasty 200DX
    Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
    Millermatic 200

    TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

    Comment


    • #3
      It appears to be similar, but this was the PDF I was looking at that has more details and references the the page numbers and items I am talking about. And no I have not tried to rap the relay with a screwdriver handle.

      http://yabe.chudov.com/Miller-Dialar...-HF-Manual.pdf

      Comment


      • #4
        First, try H80N's approach. It's the most likely fix. If not you may have to find a new relay. I suspect the part number/rating issue just a difference in how the relay is rated. The first important rating is the solenoid, or coil, rating. Both listings you show say 24VAC so that's good. The first of your two listings seem to be rated in HP for motor service. I'm guessing the HR and GP are both really HP. I can't see the diagram well here on my phone but I think as long as you get a 24vac relay with contacts rated for 10 amps, and having the right number of contacts you should be good to go. I'd take the suspect relay to your local electrical supply store (not Lowes or HD) they should be able to fix you up. Be sure to label all the wires! Are you comfortable checking voltages on powered eqpt? You could see if the 24v to the coil is going on and off with the switch, which would prove it's the relay if it doesn't move. Be careful around the HF spark gap and associated wiring. HF bites!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Starduster History View Post
          It appears to be similar, but this was the PDF I was looking at that has more details and references the the page numbers and items I am talking about. And no I have not tried to rap the relay with a screwdriver handle.

          http://yabe.chudov.com/Miller-Dialar...-HF-Manual.pdf
          the Potter Brumfield KUP11A55 is a very common relay even on Ebay......

          http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/1617975...&ul_noapp=true

          .
          .

          *******************************************
          The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

          “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

          Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

          My Blue Stuff:
          Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
          Dynasty 200DX
          Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
          Millermatic 200

          TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

          Comment


          • #6
            DIGI-KEY

            http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...B463-ND/365898

            .
            .

            *******************************************
            The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

            “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

            Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

            My Blue Stuff:
            Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
            Dynasty 200DX
            Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
            Millermatic 200

            TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Starduster History View Post
              It appears to be similar, but this was the PDF I was looking at that has more details and references the the page numbers and items I am talking about. And no I have not tried to rap the relay with a screwdriver handle.

              http://yabe.chudov.com/Miller-Dialar...-HF-Manual.pdf
              the one I posted matches your Serial Number and may have more accurate part number/spec errata...

              https://www.millerwelds.com/files/ow.../O315M_MIL.pdf


              pls doublecheck the FULL relay part number & specs printed on the ACTUAL part

              are the LAST numbers 120 or 24... or..??
              Last edited by H80N; 05-27-2016, 11:43 AM.
              .

              *******************************************
              The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

              “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

              Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

              My Blue Stuff:
              Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
              Dynasty 200DX
              Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
              Millermatic 200

              TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

              Comment


              • #8
                Aeronca 241 No I am not comfortable checking voltages on powered up equip, as that is where the lightning hides, and I have no expertise in this field, I do have several meters one volts and ohms, and the other for checking hi voltage outlets 110/120, 208/ 220, and 440 besides one has to take the relay loose from the board, leaving the wires attached and turn it upside down just to get at the terminals. Yes we have a Platt Electric store in the industrial area that has helped with other electrical items like mercury vapor lights. I just wanted to have some idea if I was on the right track with the switching circuit before changing parts. Dave

                Comment


                • #9
                  It seems to be working correctly now, and I think it started doing so prior to smacking it several times with a screw driver handle! I have it loose from the board, and can see the contacts open and close when switching from start to continuous, and stepping on the pedal. These relays work every time you initiate the arc, I do not think it did this before. Apparently these relays get a real work out, and it surprises me they have lasted as long as they have. I think I will get another new relay then wait and see what happen? I have quite a bit of welding to do this afternoon which will tell the tale? Thanks all, I will let you guys know later today or tommorrow. Dave

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Glad you got it working!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      It must've heard you threaten it with a whack from the butt end of a screw driver and straightened itself out.

                      Comment

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