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Filler Rod selection AL 4043 or A356?

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  • H80N
    replied
    Originally posted by OscarJr View Post


    Have you actually ordered 5lb of 4943 TIG rod? I've ordered from Baker's Gas & Supply in 10lb boxes. Even after looking at the Hobart/Maxal Datasheets, they only list 10lb boxes for TIG rod straight-cut lengths. I would have loved to order 5lbs at a time instead of 10lbs.

    aametalmaster, not sure why Hobart would tell you that, when they offer other quantities:


    Looks like I'm mistaken... some TIG 36inch cut lengths had been available in 1lb tubes...
    but it seems that is no longer the case & minimum size is now 10lb cartons

    Sorry to see the discontinuation of the 1lb tubes.... they would make it easier for more folks get introduced to the properties of and to try 4943...
    Last edited by H80N; 06-08-2016, 11:27 AM.

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  • aametalmaster
    replied
    Originally posted by OscarJr View Post




    aametalmaster, not sure why Hobart would tell you that, when they offer other quantities:


    I was looking at 4" spools not cut lengths. Galen sent me some to try which will be this weekend. I work at the LWS and see the min order..Bob

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  • OscarJr
    replied
    Originally posted by H80N View Post

    Bob...

    the minimum order I have seen is only 5lb for TIG rod...

    think you are talking to the wrong supplier....

    Have you actually ordered 5lb of 4943 TIG rod? I've ordered from Baker's Gas & Supply in 10lb boxes. Even after looking at the Hobart/Maxal Datasheets, they only list 10lb boxes for TIG rod straight-cut lengths. I would have loved to order 5lbs at a time instead of 10lbs.

    aametalmaster, not sure why Hobart would tell you that, when they offer other quantities:



    Attached Files

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  • Hobart Aluminum
    replied
    Originally posted by ron144 View Post
    Hey guys,

    So I want to try the Al 4943 rod....Anybody still up for sending me 1lb? If this works well with our aluminum pieces, I am thinking about ordering more pounds for our company. It would be great if I can get 1/16" size to test. Thank you and much appreciated with all the help here. You guys are awesome

    Ron, please send me your shipping address. [email protected]

    Leave a comment:


  • H80N
    replied
    Originally posted by ron144 View Post
    Hey guys,

    So I want to try the Al 4943 rod....Anybody still up for sending me 1lb? If this works well with our aluminum pieces, I am thinking about ordering more pounds for our company. It would be great if I can get 1/16" size to test. Thank you and much appreciated with all the help here. You guys are awesome
    Ron....................sent you a PM....

    Leave a comment:


  • ron144
    replied
    Hey guys,

    So I want to try the Al 4943 rod....Anybody still up for sending me 1lb? If this works well with our aluminum pieces, I am thinking about ordering more pounds for our company. It would be great if I can get 1/16" size to test. Thank you and much appreciated with all the help here. You guys are awesome

    Leave a comment:


  • H80N
    replied
    Originally posted by Hobart Aluminum View Post
    Sorry I'm so late to the game.

    A356 would give you the best performance in the as welded condition and if you were going to post weld heat treat since the chemistry will be almost identical to the original casting. If you have A356 rod, use it.

    4943 is a very close second as far as strength in the as welded and post weld heat treated condition goes. Yes, 4943 is heat treatable.

    4043 is satisfactory and will work just fine but not provide you with original strength as cast/heat treated. 4043 is not heat treatable.

    How soon do you need to weld this? I have a one pound tube of 3/32" 4943 I could send you if you want. Just give me your address and I'll send it out no charge.

    Since you are not going to reheat treat this part, using 4145 may not have any advantages in the strength department (depending on the thickness of the material where it broke already). If it fails again it will probably fail in the HAZ of the casting.

    My guess is that it is going to be difficult to find either A356 or 4145 and they will probably cost you 2-3 times more than 4943 (infinitely more since I've offered it for free :-).

    FYI, we offer all of our alloys in 10 lb boxes for TIG, some of the more popular diameters and alloys we offer in 1 lb tubes.
    Thanks Galen..... always appreciate your metalurgical knowelge.& expertise.. you distill it down to the important facts....

    Leave a comment:


  • Olivero
    replied
    Well, good luck then.

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  • Hobart Aluminum
    replied
    Sorry I'm so late to the game.

    A356 would give you the best performance in the as welded condition and if you were going to post weld heat treat since the chemistry will be almost identical to the original casting. If you have A356 rod, use it.

    4943 is a very close second as far as strength in the as welded and post weld heat treated condition goes. Yes, 4943 is heat treatable.

    4043 is satisfactory and will work just fine but not provide you with original strength as cast/heat treated. 4043 is not heat treatable.

    How soon do you need to weld this? I have a one pound tube of 3/32" 4943 I could send you if you want. Just give me your address and I'll send it out no charge.

    Since you are not going to reheat treat this part, using 4145 may not have any advantages in the strength department (depending on the thickness of the material where it broke already). If it fails again it will probably fail in the HAZ of the casting.

    My guess is that it is going to be difficult to find either A356 or 4145 and they will probably cost you 2-3 times more than 4943 (infinitely more since I've offered it for free :-).

    FYI, we offer all of our alloys in 10 lb boxes for TIG, some of the more popular diameters and alloys we offer in 1 lb tubes.

    Leave a comment:


  • ryanjones2150
    replied
    ah. Well, hope you're successful with your experiment.

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  • ron144
    replied
    Well I do not weld actually, I am only trying to find which would give me better strength properties. Basically I am doing this project to look for any failures it may experience after welding.I am going to have welder weld this and a machinist clean it up. I looked through the AMS handbook for Welding and found 4145 gives better strength, therefore, I am going to select that over the 4043 or A356.

    From what I gathered,

    4043 is not heat treatable. 4043 is better for ductility than 4145, however in my application I will need it for strength.
    A356 is heat treatable. A356 has a slightly better strength properties over 4043. I am guessing A356 filler is very old thats why its harder to find now.


    I agree with 4943 after doing research is good one and will definitely give that a try. I am sorry for all your troubles I may have caused lol I know in the end I just decided to use a different filler altogether . And I live near Panama City.

    Thanks everybody!

    Leave a comment:


  • ryanjones2150
    replied
    being that its cast aluminum, he'll have to turn the cleaning action up a ways no matter what alloy he welds it with.

    Ron, have you experienced the joys of welding cast aluminum before?

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  • Olivero
    replied
    I would do 4043, and turn the cleaning up.

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  • H80N
    replied
    Originally posted by H80N View Post
    Ron

    Where in FL...??
    Reason I ask is I have a friend in JAX who could probably loan you few sticks of 4943 to get this job done

    Leave a comment:


  • Meltedmetal
    replied
    I don't consider myself qualified to advise you but how did the original damage occur and how important is achieving the original strength. From the article I linked, I would say that you can achieve the original chemical composition with the 4181C-A356 but it would need the heat treatment to achieve the original strength. The 4043 will not have the original strength either.
    T4 temper is solution heat treated to dissolve elements into the casting and cooled rapidly to keep them in solution and naturally aged to a stable condition. I don't know what the T430 is specifically. But without heat treatment you will not regain the original conditions.
    Question is does it matter?

    Leave a comment:

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