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Syncrowave 180SD vs Thermal Arc 185TSW

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Conrad_Turbo
    PS. TMT you sound very bitter about Miller. LOL! I can see where you are coming from though, if you invest thousands of dollars into a piece of machinery you **** well expect a mfg. to support you and keep you in the loop of product development.
    In fairness, you should be aware that TMT is the author of a recent very long and acrimonious (on his part) thread here generally having to do with Miller's discontinuing the PC-300 (pulser) accessory without telling him in advance. As you can see, he has little nice to say about Miller. He is, of course, entitled to his opinions but you are also entitled to know there is definitely an old axe being ground here.
    I have an older 180SD for which I bought a very nice used PC-300 recently, as I'm doing a lot of aluminum lately, all thin stuff. I'm sure I'd be better off with a Dynasty or other inverter, but honestly for the money I've got invested this is a very satisfactory combination. Personal experiences differ, but I've found support from my Miller distributor to be excellent when needed.

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    • #17
      200DX VS ta185

      if this is youre choice options, then the dynasty if you can swing the extra $$$ is a better choice.
      the dynasty will give you 15exta amps on the top end and will draw 10amps less comming out of the wall, with the 110V option you can literaly plug it into anything, including a small genny for a quick fix in the middle of no where.it also burns stick great and you know that support from miller will be there if ever you should need it.
      i had the same choices that you now face a lil wile back and after checking and rechecking and fighting with the $$ isue i decided the dyn200DX is realy a better way to go.unforchanetly in my situation $$$ is a big problem, and as such a family emergency took my tig $$$ so i am saving again some day ill get there.
      thanks for the help
      ......or..........
      hope i helped
      sigpic
      feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. [email protected]
      summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
      JAMES

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      • #18
        Originally posted by PineKnot
        In fairness, you should be aware that TMT is the author of a recent very long and acrimonious (on his part) thread here generally having to do with Miller's discontinuing the PC-300 (pulser) accessory without telling him in advance. As you can see, he has little nice to say about Miller. He is, of course, entitled to his opinions but you are also entitled to know there is definitely an old axe being ground here.
        I have an older 180SD for which I bought a very nice used PC-300 recently, as I'm doing a lot of aluminum lately, all thin stuff. I'm sure I'd be better off with a Dynasty or other inverter, but honestly for the money I've got invested this is a very satisfactory combination. Personal experiences differ, but I've found support from my Miller distributor to be excellent when needed.
        Ya I did recall reading that thread, in all honesty, I'd be pretty frustrated/angry as well. Dropping thousands of dollars on something and finding out that you were misinformed...but then that's a whole other topic and we'll leave it at that.

        If I could find a used 180SD with PC-300 I might go that route but it seems difficult to source used TIG equipment that will go for a reasonable price. I know buying my first machine the capability of TIG welding will rest 99.999% on me, but I just want to ensure that in the $1800 price range I am getting a machine that won't limit me in the future once I become proficient at TIG.

        In all honesty I don't think it's fair to compare a Dynasty 200 with a Thermal Arc 185tsw, it's like comparing BMW to a Honda. They're in different price ranges and thus it's not a fair comparison. If I had the extra $1000 then I might go with the Dynasty, but I don't have an extra $1000 budgeted for a TIG. Let's keep this on topic of welders in the similar price range, or else we could very well drag in every commercial TIG machine in this topic. In the $1600-1700 price range there are 3 main candidates and the comparisons I found between them:

        http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...an1982/tig.jpg

        Looking at this and reviewing the specs of all 3...it looks as if the Thermal Arc comes out on top. What do you guys think? Anything I am missing?
        Thermal Arc 185TSW, Lincoln SP135+, 4-post automotive hoist, 2x media blast cabinets, 50 ton press, 80gal air compressor, 4-1/2"x6" bandsaw, 4'x4' Torchmate CNC table with plate marker, Hypertherm Powermax 65 plasma cutter, ultrasonic cleaning stations

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        • #19
          As an option instead of Ebay you can buy from http://www.aaaweldingsupply.com/. He usually can do $1650 shipped with the accessory kit. That is where I bought mine. His service is really nice to!

          My other issue is people downing the repair service/tech support for Thermal Arc. Has anyone here actually confirmed that there is not much support? I really think this comes down to not many people actually needing support from TA so there is not much info floating around regarding the service. Even my local welding supply shop in NC services the TA-185.

          John

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          • #20
            Originally posted by JohnV
            As an option instead of Ebay you can buy from http://www.aaaweldingsupply.com/. He usually can do $1650 shipped with the accessory kit. That is where I bought mine. His service is really nice to!

            My other issue is people downing the repair service/tech support for Thermal Arc. Has anyone here actually confirmed that there is not much support? I really think this comes down to not many people actually needing support from TA so there is not much info floating around regarding the service. Even my local welding supply shop in NC services the TA-185.

            John
            Thanks John! I have heard things about warrenty and such...but haven't heard of specific cases, neither have you? Haha. I am not sure if a Canadian Thermal Arc dealer will service a non-CSA approved welder. I will definately look into that in the next while.

            Originally posted by rain252
            In this price range, I would buy the TA185 hands down.
            You just get so much more and it weighs about 40#, way less electricity out of the wall to run the thing. I wouldn't be taking it other places much, but it certainly would be a nice feature to have. 240v 1-phase power is in virtually everybody's house, at least in the form of a dryer outlet, so it could go just about anywhere easily. And advanced squarewave inverter technology. If I were buying one today, it would go to eBay for $1676 delivered. Yes, its a bit of a chance about service.....but for all these differences, I would take the chance and go inverter. That is, unless I find a way to step up and buy the Dynasty 200DX. I think the old transformer machines are great, but the time will come when I want to Tig something somewhere else, or move, and I don't want to deal with the power hungry, 200#+ monsters.
            Just my 2 cents.
            True, weird I thought there would be more backing support on a Miller product on a Miller forum. I came on here thinking I would find a lot of good facts about the 180SD...instead I got more on the 185TSW. Haha.

            As for inverter technology, I wonder how the Dynasty 200DX compares to the TA 185TSW? I did some comparisons between the TA to the 200DX to see how it stacks up to something that costs another $700 on top. Sure the TA will have some downfalls compared to something $700 more, but I wanted to see how many downfalls there really are (other than the larger amperage range, 1-200amps).

            This is something I threw together: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...n1982/tig2.jpg

            Not much for differences other than some ranges of adjustment, a lot of which aren't even on the 180SD at all. Not bad for being $700 cheaper.
            Thermal Arc 185TSW, Lincoln SP135+, 4-post automotive hoist, 2x media blast cabinets, 50 ton press, 80gal air compressor, 4-1/2"x6" bandsaw, 4'x4' Torchmate CNC table with plate marker, Hypertherm Powermax 65 plasma cutter, ultrasonic cleaning stations

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            • #21
              I got my 200dx from cyberweld.com for 2317 delivered to my door. The contractor kit with a 150A aircooled torch and foot amptrol was 570. You will also need some lanthanated tungstens although the kit comes with ceriated the lanth works better. In my research i found cyberweld the cheapest. I would have liked to get it local but my supplier was almost 700 more plus tax.
              Dynasty 200 DX
              Millermatic 175
              Spectrum 375
              All kinds of Smith OA gear

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              • #22
                Conrad, the duty cycle you have listed for the TA185 is for stick, not TIG. I too went through this same decision just a bit ago. I was set on getting a used Syncro250 after being told the TA185 wouldn't be up to the task of doing 1/8". You are looking at about a 30% duty cycle on 1/8". That is pretty poor when you are talking production.

                I was going to pick up my syncro250 this week, but now I am starting to think again. Although I could always resell it, I am getting it with a bernard chiller for $1,200 and it is only 8 years old.
                Syncrowave 250DX w/Bernard cooler
                Handler 140

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                • #23
                  Rain252...the site where i got my TA-185 was www.aaaweldingsupply.com not www.weldingsupply.com

                  John

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by rain252
                    Nice spreadsheet, CT. That is helpful to compare.
                    Remember, for that $2400, I think the 200DX is power source only! No torch, no amptrol. By the time you get that stuff too, you're looking at $1,000-1,100 more $ than the TA185.

                    Also, the TA185 has a 30% duty cycle in tig at 185 amps "rated" output (230v, 1-phase in). That means it actually has a higher "full" output, but likely with a duty cycyle so small as to be negligible. What is the duty cycle of the 200DX at 200 amps?
                    Its hard to tell from looking at the performance curves in the operator manual.
                    If it is 200 amps at 30% duty cycle, then it IS a higher output machine than the TA185. Its just important to compare apples to apples.
                    Ya it just makes it easier to compare the specs of machines by throwing it all in excel, sure there are some things here and there that are left out, but the heart of what the welder can do is there.

                    Yikes so for over 3 grand you can get a 200dx then hey? It seems to be the big brother version of the TA185 by the looks of thing. The 200dx is definitely a superior machine…but then at double the price…it should be. The features the TA has is quite impressive though considering it’s half the cost, sure it’s limited in quite a few areas but when you compare it to the other $1800 TIG machines…it’s far superior (spec wise anyways), from what I see anyways.

                    Originally posted by JET
                    Conrad, the duty cycle you have listed for the TA185 is for stick, not TIG. I too went through this same decision just a bit ago. I was set on getting a used Syncro250 after being told the TA185 wouldn't be up to the task of doing 1/8". You are looking at about a 30% duty cycle on 1/8". That is pretty poor when you are talking production.

                    I was going to pick up my syncro250 this week, but now I am starting to think again. Although I could always resell it, I am getting it with a bernard chiller for $1,200 and it is only 8 years old.
                    Oops my bad, I will correct that (instead of 26v it’s supposed to be 16v), what about Miller’s specs? That’s for stick as well? I am not a welding engineer, but why does the stick have a higher voltage output as compared to the TIG process?

                    Right now I run a small fab shop so we aren’t into high production runs as we do a lot of custom one off pieces. So duty cycle is important (to a point), but with our MIG machines we haven’t exceeded the duty cycle on them, and some are 30% duty as well.

                    I would like to get a lightly used TIG machine but people in my area overpay A LOT for fabrication equipment. I went to a bankruptcy auction for a large aluminum fab shop a few months back…there were people paying more than brand new price for a welder that was used 8hrs a day, every day for at least 4 years. I’m just not that oblivious and I just want a good deal for my money. That’s the reason why I am spending so much time now weighing in the pro’s and cons of either machine.

                    I might try doing some poking around at some ESAB models and see how they stack up as well. I haven’t looked too much in their area yet.
                    Thermal Arc 185TSW, Lincoln SP135+, 4-post automotive hoist, 2x media blast cabinets, 50 ton press, 80gal air compressor, 4-1/2"x6" bandsaw, 4'x4' Torchmate CNC table with plate marker, Hypertherm Powermax 65 plasma cutter, ultrasonic cleaning stations

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                    • #25
                      [I might try doing some poking around at some ESAB models and see how they stack up as well. I haven’t looked too much in their area yet.]


                      Really esab does not stack up too well. The ac/dc rectifier machines weld
                      very nice but are a bit dated in some areas. They really do not have any
                      real good ac/dc inverters. One reason is Europe does not weld as much
                      aluminum as the USA. Some of their DC welding machines are very good.

                      The Esab rep and other have been trying to get them up to speed.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        2 pennies worth.

                        Well I've been catching your issue here off and on and even replied way back on page 1 about your differences between the Sync and TA and even though those aren't a good comparison of machine types, the Dyn200 and TA are closer but the Dynasty does outshine the TA in quite a few pertinent areas.

                        1- The Dynasty's balance can go to 99% while the TA can only get to 65%. **** our Sync 180 can get to 68%! So the Balance in the TA is far lacking.

                        2- The Dynasty output freq gets up to 250HZ which gives you a much tighter weld focus than the 150 hz that the TA gives. This allows for much tighter areas and included angles to be easier welded.

                        3- For me, the need for 120v input is a big deal as I take mine to the track and wherever to do a repair off a generator or just plug into the nearest outlet. I have to take it over to fix a railing at my rental property this weekend and it's just plug into the exterior outlet and weld on.

                        4- On your sheet, you have "proven power supply" "NO" I'd way have to dissagree on that one. Our inverters have been around and proven for 15 yrs. The Dynasty family started about 9 years ago and all our inverters carry the same 3 year warranty as any of our standard transformer units.

                        The TA is a nice unit but just because it's an inverter, doesn't mean it's in the same catagory as the Dynasty. It fills in a nitch BETWEEN the Sync 180 (which the TA has the upper hand) and the Dynasty (where the Dynasty can rock 1/4" if needed).

                        To compare the added $700 cost of the Dynasty as a negative on the Dynasty is unfair when there is so much more to the Dynasty in electronics and ability.

                        You are doing a lot of research which is very good but don't let the $$ dictate your needs. Let your needs dictate how much to spend.
                        If this is purely a money issue and you can sacrifice arc performance and portability, go with the TA.

                        One more observation...
                        You seem to be a very meticulous individual that goes the extra mile at whatever you do and I'd hate for you to have to settle on a machine that could limit you more in the way of performance. Whatever you decide, I hope you enjoy your welding adventures!

                        Andy

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                        • #27
                          TA can only get to 65%

                          90% electrode negative. 65% electrode +

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                          • #28
                            Extra amps...

                            Originally posted by fun4now
                            if this is youre choice options, then the dynasty if you can swing the extra $$$ is a better choice.
                            the dynasty will give you 15exta amps on the top end and will draw 10amps less comming out of the wall, with the 110V option you can literaly plug it into anything, including a small genny for a quick fix in the middle of no where.it also burns stick great and you know that support from miller will be there if ever you should need it.
                            i had the same choices that you now face a lil wile back and after checking and rechecking and fighting with the $$ isue i decided the dyn200DX is realy a better way to go.unforchanetly in my situation $$$ is a big problem, and as such a family emergency took my tig $$$ so i am saving again some day ill get there.
                            I've been doing the same evaulation and I noted one interesting thing.

                            The charts for the dynasty only show 200amp performance when running on 3phase power. On single phase power, the current draw and supply are very similar.

                            Mike

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                            • #29
                              Sanex does not build cheap stuff, It's high quality.
                              http://www.sanrex.com/

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                              • #30
                                Rain,
                                Like I say, I think the Thermo fits an area between the Sync and the Dynasty and if that fits your needs than it could be the machine for you. It is a good topic to be talked about and for those making decisions based on funds available, the thermo is an attractive unit. For those looking at arc performance, portability, service etc.. Then the Dynasty would be my first choice. Either way you decide to go, I'm sure you will bring good insite to your new experiences.

                                Good luck!

                                Andy

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