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  • Bottom of the bottle argon

    Does any one know if argon draws from the top or bottom of the cylinder? I was welding with about two to three hundred pounds left and it seems to have run out of argon.My flow metor shows a good flow.It seems to me that the argon is below the intake tube and I am now getting compressed old air.I am wondering if I could turn the cylinder upside down and open the valve to purge out the bad air befor getting it refilled?
    To all who contribute to this board.
    My sincere thanks , Pete.

    Pureox OA
    Westinghouse 300 amp AC stick
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  • #2
    Argon in stored as a gas. No liquid. No intake tube. If your high pressure guage reads, you have gas in the cylinder. If you have a reading and no flow, you could have a bad flowmeter, or an inaccurate (busted) high pressure guge. I'd pull the flowmeter off and crack the valve. Then you'll know what you have!

    Hank
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    • #3
      I have gas flowing,but its not argon.It worked fine untill I got to the end of the tank.I can feel the gas comming out but it does not perform like argon.I switched tanks and every thing works fine.There for nothing is wrong with the machine .The first bottle worked fine untill I got down to 2-3 hundred PSI,there for it contained argon.Now gas comes out but does not perform, ther for its not argon.
      The only logical explanation is the new tank was full of air at atmospheric presure and compressed when argon was added.Since argon is heavyer than air,the air would be at the top.AS the tank emptys the air would move to the bottom and if that is where the tank draws from,say 3" from bottom,you would get air after the argon level drops below 3".
      I dont know where the tank draws from so I also dont know if my explanation holds water but its the only one I can think of.
      To all who contribute to this board.
      My sincere thanks , Pete.

      Pureox OA
      Westinghouse 300 amp AC stick
      Miller Syncrowave 250
      Hexacon 250 watt solder iron

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      • #4
        Also my flow metor is the type with the floating ball and I dont see how the ball could float up to 18 with out gas of some sort moving through it when I hit the trigger.
        To all who contribute to this board.
        My sincere thanks , Pete.

        Pureox OA
        Westinghouse 300 amp AC stick
        Miller Syncrowave 250
        Hexacon 250 watt solder iron

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        • #5
          mine is down to around 100psi. no problems at all, used it yesterday.

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          • #6
            Argon iis heavier than oxegen as we all know but i dont know if this will effect the gass from the tank.
            I have had the same problem but i dont know the cause just went and got another bottle was the only answer I could come up with


            Terence

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            • #7
              Well,I decided to drain my cylinder upside down and see if that makes a difference on my next fill up.The argon cant change properties so there must be atmospheric air in the bottle.The only thing that makes sence to me is that the bottle was never purged of the air inside befor the first filling.
              I'm interested in knowing how many other people have had this happen?
              To all who contribute to this board.
              My sincere thanks , Pete.

              Pureox OA
              Westinghouse 300 amp AC stick
              Miller Syncrowave 250
              Hexacon 250 watt solder iron

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              • #8
                I would have to say that your bottle is MT. Your pressure guage is most likely not very accurate on the lower end, and your not getting a good enough flow rate for proper shielding. Just get another bottle, definately not worth fretting over.
                http://groups.msn.com/ArcAlaskaWelding
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                • #9
                  My guage is brand new and when I drained the cylinder there was considerable presure and it took a while to drain down.Also if the ball showes 18 cf thats what you are getting regardless of whats in the tank.
                  To all who contribute to this board.
                  My sincere thanks , Pete.

                  Pureox OA
                  Westinghouse 300 amp AC stick
                  Miller Syncrowave 250
                  Hexacon 250 watt solder iron

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                  • #10
                    I would turn it up side down and try it, you got nothing to loose. That would tell you if specific gravity of the gas is a factor. you need to empty it either way just to be sure.
                    I own my bottles but they just exchange them when I refill so it's hard to say where they have been.

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                    • #11
                      If you were getting contamination in the weld, it sounds like the bottle wasn't puged well and your running into bad gas. I've even had that happen with 500lbs already. I just brought the bottle back and they gave me a free full one.

                      Andy

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ASKANDY
                        If you were getting contamination in the weld, it sounds like the bottle wasn't puged well and your running into bad gas. I've even had that happen with 500lbs already. I just brought the bottle back and they gave me a free full one.

                        Andy
                        I feel kind of dumb now,never thought to just take it back.At least I now know that the problem does exist and what to do next time.Hopefully there wont be a next time.I have used a lot of bottled gasses in my time and this is my first bad one that I now of.
                        Thanks for giveing me the peace of mind to know that this does happan at times.
                        To all who contribute to this board.
                        My sincere thanks , Pete.

                        Pureox OA
                        Westinghouse 300 amp AC stick
                        Miller Syncrowave 250
                        Hexacon 250 watt solder iron

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                        • #13
                          Bad gas is a reality in life

                          I've had encounter a couple bad Argon in the past, especially with cylinders from Liquid Air. Check the sticker on the bottle to see who filled it. The cheaper Argon gas is not filled into commited Argon tanks. That means that they will grab what tank they have, fill the gas and slap new sticker that says tank has Argon in it.

                          On my last thread on this board, I was trying to troubleshoot a really bad weld on Al. I thought that it was the brand new welding machine that went bad. Turns out the gas is the culprit. I still have 500psi in that tank and it weld Al like crap.

                          It only takes me one time to realize that you do get what you pay for even when you are buying simple things like a tank of Argon!

                          Now I switch and only use pre-purified argon. These guys have their own commited Argon tank and the gas is pure to 99.9998%. Now we are cooking with real gas (pun intended)

                          Andre
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                          • #14
                            Grocery_getter
                            I was following youre thread on the bad Al welds.What through me was that my argon worked fine at the beginning and then got bad.The label on mine said "extra pure",I'l have to check to see if that is the same as pre-pureifyed.I have a feeling that it was just never purged befor being filled.
                            To all who contribute to this board.
                            My sincere thanks , Pete.

                            Pureox OA
                            Westinghouse 300 amp AC stick
                            Miller Syncrowave 250
                            Hexacon 250 watt solder iron

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                            • #15
                              left over c-25

                              would be interesting to find out if it has a draw straw in the tank. if it dose not and it draws from the top you would be able to purge it after filling and the bad gas would be on top and first to come out, not last maybee it is not oxygen that is causing the problem, would o2 left in it if it was a C25 tank befor have the same result on the TIG weld.


                              grocery_getter was pointing to something along thouse lines with the designated tank i think.
                              i too own some tanks and rent some but they just swap out the tank eathere way so own or rent i never get my bottle back so there is no telling what was in it befor they filled it. i have not had any truble as i just MIG steel right now and dont think the make up is quite as critical.
                              thanks for the help
                              ......or..........
                              hope i helped
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