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  • #16
    Tp Gta

    I Have a Great relationship with My dist, and during the good times had 37 employees,used to but Jet, 7024 1/8 by the pallet!! Those were the good old 80's Im definding dawg also,,,and its not because we are ct. boys, since ebay, ioc beats beats my dist on brand new red or blue, and ive never gotten a call that my montly bill was 31 days old,,,I brought them the new quote I just got, and they have like 13 stores, No small outfit,They would not match ioc,? Whys that? ,,If Miller can do it to the millinares,that just call there sponcer and say we need more money,BINGO, its on its way,and Im still not using TIDE to wash my clothes,Its always the little guy that gets wacked,I wonder what the ceo of Miller and Lincoln Made last year,?I comend you for being a smart young man and saving, But look at the whole pic., The dawg is only a few years older than you, and I bought my co when I was 22,So hope im not to old at the big 50,which I just turned,What we neeed is the USA to start helping us instead of everyone else,,,my 3 cents,Jack

    Comment


    • #17
      HAWK's Thoughts

      A welding power source is a tool used to accomplish a job. Quality tools cost money for many reasons including those stated by GTA/SPEC. I would like to add there is a substantial cost for research and development. Before a machine goes to market it must be tested in house and in the field. This is a very expensive process.

      Miller spends a tremendous amount of money staffing their company with competent, educated, experienced, professional personnel. When we call in for help regarding the use or application of any Miller products we get good help free of charge. Most companies that I deal with require a support contract or a credit card for a charge by question billing before they will tell me anything. I am very thankful Miller does not charge for their support.

      Since tools do a job they should pay for themselves over a reasonable period of time. Therefore, the cost of a quality welding machine will be “recouped” by those in the welding business. However, the hobbyist welders have a different delimma.

      The hobbyist welder has to buy the best machine to support their hobby. These machines will more than likely never pay for themselves in the financial sense. However, they will give a feeling of satisfaction to the operator for the skill acquired and the end result achieved.

      I believe all should strive to keep companies competitive in their market pricing. Let us be prudent in doing this. We do not want to get such a good deal the company will not be around to service us and honor the warranty and repairs in the years ahead.

      We all want a good deal on the best equipment we can afford for our business or hobby. There is nothing wrong with a good deal. I believe there is a difference between a good deal and a handout.

      Comment


      • #18
        I agree

        Originally posted by HAWK
        A welding power source is a tool used to accomplish a job. Quality tools cost money for many reasons including those stated by GTA/SPEC. I would like to add there is a substantial cost for research and development. Before a machine goes to market it must be tested in house and in the field. This is a very expensive process.

        Miller spends a tremendous amount of money staffing their company with competent, educated, experienced, professional personnel. When we call in for help regarding the use or application of any Miller products we get good help free of charge. Most companies that I deal with require a support contract or a credit card for a charge by question billing before they will tell me anything. I am very thankful Miller does not charge for their support.

        Since tools do a job they should pay for themselves over a reasonable period of time. Therefore, the cost of a quality welding machine will be “recouped” by those in the welding business. However, the hobbyist welders have a different delimma.

        The hobbyist welder has to buy the best machine to support their hobby. These machines will more than likely never pay for themselves in the financial sense. However, they will give a feeling of satisfaction to the operator for the skill acquired and the end result achieved.

        I believe all should strive to keep companies competitive in their market pricing. Let us be prudent in doing this. We do not want to get such a good deal the company will not be around to service us and honor the warranty and repairs in the years ahead.

        We all want a good deal on the best equipment we can afford for our business or hobby. There is nothing wrong with a good deal. I believe there is a difference between a good deal and a handout.
        But I have 50/50 red and blue,,and I see better results when I call lincoln directly,so I cant complain,They have both been around, and will be around for longer than you and me and andy and you get my point,
        The red machine must do the same testing ,etc,because in the last couple of years ,they have really stepped up to the plate,,Maybe Blue made them? You and me will never know,We are not looking for a handout,Just the same deal that lincoln will give,and if I look back to my 28 years ,Ive probably had to have the welding doctor in more on the big Blue,,Dont even get me started with the spectrum 500 plasma,,$3600.00 brand new(they had just came out) But that machine was like the movie the Money Pit,and your rite we have to buy the best for our money, and we areall different, and Maybe luck has something to do with it, Have a good night,Jack

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        • #19
          my last breath

          we all know the story of someone who cheaps it up then *****es about the end result..... myself included..... bought a bunch of c clamps for a $1 a piece and when one broke and shot across the shop......needless to say they all went in the trash - now its all visegrips......or a industrual c clamp

          dont get me started on my 110v mig

          I understand that this is a miller board but I just dont get all of the lincoln bashing.........? I will have to agree with jack on that one !

          you know us CT guys have to stick together !!!

          dawg

          Comment


          • #20
            Hey guys, play nice. I wish I was twenty again. You both have valid points. Quality cost MONEY and consumers always look for VALUE.

            Comment


            • #21
              not a big deal just a lesson in buyer beware.......luckly I am a nice guy

              guess I will end up buying a sp135+ cause the passport is too **** expensive

              www.shopfloortalk.com

              dawg

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by arcdawg
                not a big deal just a lesson in buyer beware.......luckly I am a nice guy

                guess I will end up buying a sp135+ cause the passport is too **** expensive

                www.shopfloortalk.com

                dawg
                Remember to add the Sp 175 plus to your list, Then you will have almost a Passport. You could adapt a little bottle to the Lincoln and it would be pretty cool too. I never used co2 in my Lincoln 175 plus, but I have heard it will do pretty well. (from my friend at Airgas) I found out the Esab 160 mutimaster welds really nice on co2 better then C25 for the most part.

                Comment


                • #23
                  It WAS

                  It was the other board, that i poised the question, and it was 99% red, you cant adjust both the heat and wire feed, on the "M",,,If what i said that night againt the m word, Andy would have tossed me, But the gentleman he is welcomed me and thanked me for staying,,And Arcie,,,the CT. guys got to stick together,,I dont even want to hear the Mil. story,BUT IF YOU INSIST THANKS JACK

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Maybe the Motorsports discount should link you to IOC.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      wow

                      Kinda funny how a thread can start one place and end up so far away.......

                      Miller is a company who must make a profit to stay in business.......they cannot give huge discounts and or sell at cost to welders and fabricators because, Welders and fabricators are the only people who buy welders...........My Grandmother is not in the market......lol

                      Most companies must advertise thier products.........Advertising is a legimate and nessasary expense.........There are many means of advertising, this site being one........another is race cars.

                      Racecars are sort of like moving billboards........Racers sell space on thier cars.........The cost?? Millions for a major sponsor in NASCAR, Perhaps a set of tires at the local dirt track........

                      There is no handout here..........the racer is selling a service (which he is required to report as income)........ The company is buying a service, which they will deduct as advertising expense........simple business deal.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Jack,

                        In response to your red/blu issue: But I have 50/50 red and blue,,and I see better results when I call lincoln directly,so I cant complain,They have both been around, and will be around for longer than you and me and andy and you get my point,
                        The red machine must do the same testing ,etc,because in the last couple of years ,they have really stepped up to the plate,,Maybe Blue made them? You and me will never know,We are not looking for a handout,Just the same deal that lincoln will give,and if I look back to my 28 years ,Ive probably had to have the welding doctor in more on the big Blue,,Dont even get me started with the spectrum 500 plasma,,$3600.00 brand new(they had just came out) But that machine was like the movie the Money Pit,and your rite we have to buy the best for our money, and we areall different, and Maybe luck has something to do with it, Have a good night,Jack

                        storts


                        JACK,

                        THANK YOU FOR BEING IN AGREEMENT. FOR ME THIS IS NOT ABOUT RED AND BLUE. I HAVE NEVER HAD THE PROBLEM OF ASKING MILLER FOR WHAT LINCOLN WILL DO. I NO LONGER OWN ANY LINCOLN EVEN THOUGH THEY MAKE SOME GOOD STUFF. I CANNOT GET ANY, LET ALONE GOOD, CUSTOMER SERVICE FROM THEM WHEN I CALL.

                        ON THE OTHER HAND MILLER HAS BEEN MORE THAN GOOD TO ME! I HAVE RECEIVED EXCELLENT CUSTOMER SERVICE, QUICK TURN AROUND ON A WARRANTY ISSUE, A WARM WELCOME FROM THEIR EMPLOYEES EVEN THOUGH I AM "JUST A SMALL WELDING SHOP", AND SO MANY MORE GOOD THINGS INCLUDING PRICE. I HAVE NEVER HAD ANY DEALER OFFER ME A COMPARABLE LINCOLN PRODUCT FOR A LESSER PRICE. THE DEALERS I DO BUSINESS WITH PRETTY MUCH GIVE A HEFTY DISCOUNT UP FRONT, WITHOUT GROVELING, BECAUSE THEY WANT TO MOVE MACHINES. IF THEY MOVE MACHINES, THEN THEY SELL FILLER, GAS, GLOVES, GRINDING WHEELS, AND OTHER STUFF THAT MAKES THEM MONEY. MY DEALERS ARE NOT GETTING RICH ON EQUIPMENT.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          A lot is that Red makes it easier and gets the word out better on their deals.

                          No, I don't want soemthing for nothing, but I do want the best deal I can get, and I haev to watch how much I spend.

                          The strange thing is since Red gave me a discount on training and will do so again later, I have basically entered into a contract to advertise for them, shop banner and cars and transporters. No matter I don't own any Red equipment, I still said for their consideration I would run their decals. And they gave me banners and decals, nothing from Miller.

                          Now the first I heard about anything from Miller was this thread. Nothing like making it hard for people to find out.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            to hawk

                            Originally posted by HAWK
                            Jack,

                            In response to your red/blu issue: But I have 50/50 red and blue,,and I see better results when I call lincoln directly,so I cant complain,They have both been around, and will be around for longer than you and me and andy and you get my point,
                            The red machine must do the same testing ,etc,because in the last couple of years ,they have really stepped up to the plate,,Maybe Blue made them? You and me will never know,We are not looking for a handout,Just the same deal that lincoln will give,and if I look back to my 28 years ,Ive probably had to have the welding doctor in more on the big Blue,,Dont even get me started with the spectrum 500 plasma,,$3600.00 brand new(they had just came out) But that machine was like the movie the Money Pit,and your rite we have to buy the best for our money, and we areall different, and Maybe luck has something to do with it, Have a good night,Jack

                            storts


                            JACK,

                            THANK YOU FOR BEING IN AGREEMENT. FOR ME THIS IS NOT ABOUT RED AND BLUE. I HAVE NEVER HAD THE PROBLEM OF ASKING MILLER FOR WHAT LINCOLN WILL DO. I NO LONGER OWN ANY LINCOLN EVEN THOUGH THEY MAKE SOME GOOD STUFF. I CANNOT GET ANY, LET ALONE GOOD, CUSTOMER SERVICE FROM THEM WHEN I CALL.

                            ON THE OTHER HAND MILLER HAS BEEN MORE THAN GOOD TO ME! I HAVE RECEIVED EXCELLENT CUSTOMER SERVICE, QUICK TURN AROUND ON A WARRANTY ISSUE, A WARM WELCOME FROM THEIR EMPLOYEES EVEN THOUGH I AM "JUST A SMALL WELDING SHOP", AND SO MANY MORE GOOD THINGS INCLUDING PRICE. I HAVE NEVER HAD ANY DEALER OFFER ME A COMPARABLE LINCOLN PRODUCT FOR A LESSER PRICE. THE DEALERS I DO BUSINESS WITH PRETTY MUCH GIVE A HEFTY DISCOUNT UP FRONT, WITHOUT GROVELING, BECAUSE THEY WANT TO MOVE MACHINES. IF THEY MOVE MACHINES, THEN THEY SELL FILLER, GAS, GLOVES, GRINDING WHEELS, AND OTHER STUFF THAT MAKES THEM MONEY. MY DEALERS ARE NOT GETTING RICH ON EQUIPMENT.
                            Its Funny on where you go,and sometimes if the branch manager knows and like you(Maybe going in on a sunday to heli-arc a small hole in his boat,which he paid cash for,But gave him a decent break, because he takes care of me, no hanky panky, no freebis)I do that with everybody that walks in the door, you never know when you do a 10.00 quick Job and the guy turns out to be a muli millionare contractor,and remembers the treatment he got, I treat every bosy the way I want to treated, and it usually work, theres always the bad apples out there that will take advantage of you,But you learn how to spot them,And on the other hand, there are people that cant stand this man I guess if was that easy we would not need forums like these,and life would be boring,my 3.25 cents worth,Jack

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by snow
                              Kinda funny how a thread can start one place and end up so far away.......

                              Miller is a company who must make a profit to stay in business.......they cannot give huge discounts and or sell at cost to welders and fabricators because, Welders and fabricators are the only people who buy welders...........My Grandmother is not in the market......lol

                              Most companies must advertise thier products.........Advertising is a legimate and nessasary expense.........There are many means of advertising, this site being one........another is race cars.

                              Racecars are sort of like moving billboards........Racers sell space on thier cars.........The cost?? Millions for a major sponsor in NASCAR, Perhaps a set of tires at the local dirt track........

                              There is no handout here..........the racer is selling a service (which he is required to report as income)........ The company is buying a service, which they will deduct as advertising expense........simple business deal.

                              No doubt that what you are saying is true. I don't think anyone wants miller or any other welding company to sell them a welder below cost. They are also willing to fly the colors on their race car.
                              I think what would be a profitable deal for the welding manufacturers and local dist. would be a plan like this.
                              Make the motorsports program accessible to more racers and fabricators by making it simpler,like Lincoln has tried. Then allow the participant to purchase the welder through his local dist. at the discounted price with a manufacturers discount certificate or rebate. I don't think this would hurt anyone involved especially if the welder manufacturers can sell to a place like IOC who can sell at discounted prices. Obviosly the welder manufacturers and IOC are both making money on these welders. I would bet that these are being drop shipped from the manufacturer which is why shipping is free also, to say nothing about saving the sales tax if you live in some states. If the manufacturers were concerned about their other dist. they wouldn't allow this. Not every racer is going to play by the rules, but think of all of the stickers on the cars of the ones that do!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                While I was sitting here reading this thread UPS knocked on my door delivering my Lincoln Motorsports Package. I submitted my application last week.

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