TIG purchase

[JET]

I am going to be making a TIG purchase shortly. I won't be using it everyday, but when I do it will be used fairly heavily welding 1/8" aluminum. The longest weld is 17".

I have a small shop that I am trying to grow, but I just do not have the funds for a 300DX. I am really leaning towards the TA185, but I am worried about pushing it too hard. I wish Miller made a 250 amp inverter! The D200DX just doesn't seem to offer much extra to me for the extra money, that is why I am thinking of the TA185.

Is the duty rating from the manufacturers set because of the internals getting too hot? Would it be possible to put a water cooled torch on a TA185?

[HAWK]

Jet,

Welcome to the forum. The TA 185 is a decent machine. It is made by Sanrex and marketed here in the United States by Thermal Arc. The Dynasty offers a heavier duty machine with a higher top end. The best thing the Dynasty offers is all metal and no plastic plus the best customer service and warranty department in the business.

If you go with the TA 185, then you can add a water cooled torch. All you need is the Cooler, a torch set up such as a Miller Diamond Back or Weldcraft #20, a torch adapter for the TA 185, and you are ready to rock. You can put a water cooled torch on any unit as long as you have a cooler.

The cooler will only cool the torch and will in no way affect the machine's duty cycle. That is based on the input cord and the internal components. Compare duty cycle ratings and try to lay hands on both the TA 185 and the D200DX before making a decision.

[HAWK]

Jet,

If you do not have to have an inverter because of the input power requirements, take alook at the Miller Syncrowave 250DX with the integrated water cooler.

[HAWK]

Jet,

SCOTT V or others correct me if I'm wrong.

Unless something has changed I don't think the TA 185 will operate on 120 VAC input as the Dynasty will and push quite a few amps on TIG. That alone is worth the extra money I think.

[Scott V]

230 only on the Thermal. It really only draws about 30 amps on the tig setting but stick is a bit more. The 120 volt is handy but with the price difference you could get a base model Maxstar 150 and a Thermal 185 for a interesting setup.
It still would not have the ac 120 volt but it would be a pretty impressive setup in it's own right. I think Dan, have been thinking that way.

I have heard Sanrex has a 200 amp 120/230 volt unit too, just not here.

[JET]

Thanks for the input Hawk. I do want an inverter because it will be 90% aluminum usage. I was originally looking at the synchrowave 250 until I started doing more research. As far as it not working on 120v, that doesn't matter to me. It will stay in the shop at all times.

I am a bit confused on the duty cycles.

D200DX is 150A @ 16v with a 60% cycle
TA 185 is 180A @ 17.4v with a 30% cycle

The TA185 has a lower cycle %, but it is also at a higher amperage and voltage. I am guessing the TA cycle % would be ~50% if it was rated the same as the Miller, but I would love more feedback on that. For $1,100 cheaper, I could live with 10% less duty cycle. If it is more, that may change my mind.

[TheRealSpinner]

Duty cycles actually correspond to a curve graph. Different companies use different amperage ratings to market their products. (I think they do this on purpose to make it harder to compare directly.) Essentially, if you have a duty cycle of 60% at 150 amps, and another of 50% at 165 amps, you can say that these would perform very similarily. Essentially, the first model might perform 55% at 160 amps and the second 55% at 160 amps also. Keep in mind that these are FACTORY ESTIMATIONS under FACTORY CONDITIONS, real life conditions and even from machine to machine may vary drastically. For instance, both machines may actually perform 60% at 145 amps.

Sorry for the long response, and although companies try do keep this variation to a minimum, it does exist, so to buy one machine over another just because it has a slightly higher duty cycle may be dissappointing. Put your hands on both of them, then decide.

[HAWK]

JET,

Here is a link to the owner's manual on the TA 185. It includes a section on the machine duty cycle rating. See attached for the page from the manual.

Here is the Dynasty 200DX manual. See pages 12-16 for duty cycle information. Be sure to look at the graphs for 230VAC single phase power. There are separate graphs for AC and DC weld output.

Maybe you have this information. If not, I hope it helps with your decision.

[JET]

Thanks a ton guys! Especially you Hawk!! I wasn't aware that they had more duty cycle info in the instrucion manuals.

I made up my mind between the 200dx and the TA185. At the range I will be using them at (~180 amps) they both have basically a 30% duty cycle. The 200dx is capable of putting out 20v more than the TA, but that will lower the duty cycle even more. So the TA wins because of price.

Now comes the problem. I don't know if I am going to be happy with a 30% duty cycle! The 300DX has a 100% duty cycle at 180 amps, decisions!! I really wish I had $5k sitting around that I could use for a TIG, but at the early stages my shop is at, I just can't afford it. I don't know if I can get the amount of power a S250dx would take either.

[HAWK]

JET,

You are most welcome for the information. I hope this does not add more confusion to your task so here goes:

OPTION 1

Don't underestimate the abilities of the Sync 250 do to aluminum. A big issue is the input power. If you do not have the correct supply line, then the Sync 250 will not operate at its maximum AC potential. The AC output, regulated by the maximum EN balance, is limited by available input amperage. Contact and electrician to see if you can get the input power required for the Syncrowave 250DX. Perhaps having your utility add an additional 200 amp service is an option. If you would consider a used Syncro 250, then shoot me an email @ [email protected] I know where a couple of nice units a for sale if they are not already sold.

OPTION 2

Have you considered or can you afford to finance the D300DX TIG RUNNER package? Miller did have some very attractive finance offers. I do not know if they are still available. Maybe your bank or credit union would do a goo rate.

Something to consider: An air cooled torch at 180 amps is going to get hot to the touch. 3 minutes out of 10 minutes is all you are going to want to handle the torch anyway.

[Canuck]

I agree with HAWK, consider the syncrowave 250. We have an older model at work that does 95% of our TIG and it is all Aluminum. We build Tanker Trailers so our parts have to be perfect and the 250 gives us quality results on 1/8-3/4" Al. on a regular basis.
KB

[JET]

I double checked tonight and I only have a 100 amp service in the shop. I will be the only person working in there. I am a little worried that I might trip a breaker or something if I draw over 80 amps. Maybe if I get a Synch 250 I just won't turn it up real high. Anyone know of a good deal on a used one? I found a 95 model with all the options for $1,900 (no cooler).

[HAWK]

JET,

I think you are pushing it with only 100 amp service for the garage. You may have trouble with 1/4" aluminum. I assume there is lighting, wall sockets, and other circuits supplied by this 100 amp shop service.

Have you considered a D300DX new less the cooler and water cooled torch set up? Get the machine, accessories, and an air cooled torch to get started. Then pick up a Coolmate 3 or Binzel cooler and a #20 water cooled torch. This route could save you close to $1000 on the front end.

[JET]

I don't forsee myself doing anything over 1/8" aluminum. There is a possibility for the occasional repair though that would be thicker. I am going to check the wires coming in and see if it would be possible to put a larger service on it.

I would absolutely love the D300DX, but my budget right now is about $2k. That machine would be perfect for me, but I just can't justify the cost right now. I think I am leaning towards a used Synch 250.

A question on the S250's, are there many differences through the years? There is an older one (80's?) with a cooler for $1,600.

[HAWK]

JET,

Check your email: Current generation: integrated cooling system, previous generation: digital displays. Third generation: Analog displays. As with anything there are sublte differences and improvements as the years roll by. The Syncrowaves are great machines with an excellent welding arc. They have been the mainstay of Miller's GTAW line for 25 years and a new model has just emerged. Wow! That is something...