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  • #31
    Originally posted by OldSparks
    I'll add a little confusion. I do a lot of steel tube butt joints and I can't even remember having to do a serious fillet. I was surprised to see the amperage you guys are talking about for 1/4" plate. I just went out and threw a few pieces together. The verticle pieces are 3/8" thick being welded to !/2" plate on the bottom. I ground a 1/8" chamfer on the 3/8" piece. The first picture shows the tack-up, the second is a three pass joint and the third is a single pass joint. All welds were at 170 amps. I really couldn't justify using any more heat and would feel more comfortable with less.. Do people really weld 1/4" steel at 250 amps?
    As for your machine selection, I recently spent some time on a 'CST 250' dc machine, valve on torch, no foot pedal. Bare bones but a real dandy stick/tig machine.
    It was me who originally mentioned the 250 amps.I was meerly quoteing the 1 amp per .001 metal thickness rule for single pass welds.I now the rule is very acurate for thin guage material witch is what I bought my tig welder for.I have not tested it on anything over 3/16".For heavy peices I will more than likely be stick welding but I beleive dhdh71 wants the tig weld for apearance.I dont know if this would be best acomplished wiyh single pass or not.
    Out of curiosity,what machine did you use to make youre welds.

    Harbor Freight is like politics,allways there for a good laugh.
    To all who contribute to this board.
    My sincere thanks , Pete.

    Pureox OA
    Westinghouse 300 amp AC stick
    Miller Syncrowave 250
    Hexacon 250 watt solder iron

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    • #32
      I found some ¼” material and ran off a fillet at 200 amps. Not trying to maneuver around the corners made things easier and I found the 200 amp setting no problem. The Miller tig calculator calls for a minimum of 275 amps for this joint. Although I didn’t go that high I realize now it isn’t such an outragous number. A welder working in a nice comfortable position, straight line welding with large pieces to soak up the heat would be able to put in a beautiful weld. What I question is whether this heat is for maximum production and efficiency or if this number has to be taken as a minimum to produce a structurally sound weld? I think it would be pretty tough to handle 300 amps welding around small attachments while laying on your side on the floor. Isn’t it possible to get a sound fillet on ¼” at around 150 amps by going slower and/or multiple passes and/or beveling the material.
      As for my machine, I have an XMT 304 cc/cv. I got it a while back before the ac/dc inverters came out. I don’t really have any need for aluminum but it would be nice to play around with. Probably just as well I don’t have ac, I haven’t got dc figured out yet...
      Attached Files

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      • #33
        Not being a profetional welder myself,I'm just useing logic here.
        I have seen weld criteria that requires multiple pass welds so I dont think its a matter of sole strength but more a way to rate the machine.Obviously a single pass weld will be faster and more cost efective than multiple pass welds.
        To all who contribute to this board.
        My sincere thanks , Pete.

        Pureox OA
        Westinghouse 300 amp AC stick
        Miller Syncrowave 250
        Hexacon 250 watt solder iron

        Comment


        • #34
          Old sparks the weld looks fine on the face but is there a nice weld crown on the root side, if not then you didn't get there!

          Peace,

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          • #35
            as i understand it if you dont have the amp's you can play with the setup as in beveling and multy passing and preheating. but the miller calk is for single pass full penitration. so yes you can weld 1/4" with less than 250amps just gota use more time in prep amd procedure. time is $$$$ and it iss cheaper in the long run to spend the $$ to alow single pass than to pay someone to spend 2hr's preping for a 10min. weld

            that being said i have more time than $$$$ so it looks like ill be multy passing and preping
            thanks for the help
            ......or..........
            hope i helped
            sigpic
            feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. [email protected]
            summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
            JAMES

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            • #36
              Originally posted by fun4now
              as i understand it if you dont have the amp's you can play with the setup as in beveling and multy passing and preheating. but the miller calk is for single pass full penitration. so yes you can weld 1/4" with less than 250amps just gota use more time in prep amd procedure. time is $$$$ and it iss cheaper in the long run to spend the $$ to alow single pass than to pay someone to spend 2hr's preping for a 10min. weld

              that being said i have more time than $$$$ so it looks like ill be multy passing and preping
              Good to see youre enjoying you're retirement.
              HAVE FUN
              To all who contribute to this board.
              My sincere thanks , Pete.

              Pureox OA
              Westinghouse 300 amp AC stick
              Miller Syncrowave 250
              Hexacon 250 watt solder iron

              Comment


              • #37
                pjseaman

                Are you saying that there should be physical evidence of the fillet weld showing through on the bottom of the 1/4" plate?
                Attached Files

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                • #38
                  dhdh71

                  I've been following this thread because I thought 275-360 amps on 1/4" plate (Miller Tig Calculator) was meant as a production thing and not a necessity for a sound weld. I wanted to assure you that you could weld your 1/4" attachments at 150-170 amps and you could get away with the smaller machines you were looking at. I still think you can. But I've been wrong before and I won’t press the point. Seeing your vehicle is only as safe as its weakest link I guess you will have to get one of those big hunking machines.
                  I found this other chart from 'Modern Welding' . Maybe you should get a second opinion.
                  Attached Files

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by OldSparks
                    I've been following this thread because I thought 275-360 amps on 1/4" plate (Miller Tig Calculator) was meant as a production thing and not a necessity for a sound weld. I wanted to assure you that you could weld your 1/4" attachments at 150-170 amps and you could get away with the smaller machines you were looking at. I still think you can. But I've been wrong before and I won’t press the point. Seeing your vehicle is only as safe as its weakest link I guess you will have to get one of those big hunking machines.
                    I found this other chart from 'Modern Welding' . Maybe you should get a second opinion.
                    The 1 amp per .001 rule is a general guide line and works out to 250 amps on 1/4". The chart you posted shows 175-210 amps for 1/4".Pretty close concidering that the .001 rule is a general rule covering all applications.
                    To all who contribute to this board.
                    My sincere thanks , Pete.

                    Pureox OA
                    Westinghouse 300 amp AC stick
                    Miller Syncrowave 250
                    Hexacon 250 watt solder iron

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      inverters

                      it would seem that the inverters change the graph a bit as well, with a sharper arc controling the heat displacement you can get a bit more out of the same amp's . this has a lot to do with there advantage on aluminum. not discounting it's other advantages.
                      thanks for the help
                      ......or..........
                      hope i helped
                      sigpic
                      feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. [email protected]
                      summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
                      JAMES

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        inverters

                        it would seem that the inverters change the graph a bit as well, with a sharper arc controling the heat displacement you can get a bit more out of the same amp's . this has a lot to do with there advantage on aluminum. not discounting it's other advantages.

                        also we must keep in mind that the .001 is just a good starting point not the law of metal god's. and wile welding co. want to impress you with great #'s they dont want to tell you you can weld 1" with 150amps then try to explain all the steps necicary to actualy make it work(i think someone already mentioned the disclaimer problem )

                        long and short of it is the dynasty 200 will do 1/4" but if you intend to do 1/4" all day long 5 days a week to make a living you should look for a lil more omph. the 300DX would be great
                        thanks for the help
                        ......or..........
                        hope i helped
                        sigpic
                        feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. [email protected]
                        summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
                        JAMES

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          O.K....so we agree that dhdh71 will be able to weld on his 1/4" attachments with one of the Maxstar/Dynasty 200 series. He's stressed a few times that he's not really interested in aluminum so it can be a dc machine. Maybe someone could write in on the value of the pulse arc for controlling distortion on the sheet metal. I imagine it's a must have for bodywork. In any case I think dhdh71 should go with one of the dc Maxstars or possibly the CST 250. He could spend the money he saved by sticking to dc on a set of anvils and his first tig/practice project could be building an english wheel.

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                          • #43
                            Keep the great info coming guys, I'm all ears! I've been away for a few days but I'm gonna sit my butt down and read your new posts-Thanks again, keep-em-coming!

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by OldSparks
                              O.K....so we agree that dhdh71 will be able to weld on his 1/4" attachments with one of the Maxstar/Dynasty 200 series. He's stressed a few times that he's not really interested in aluminum so it can be a dc machine. Maybe someone could write in on the value of the pulse arc for controlling distortion on the sheet metal. I imagine it's a must have for bodywork. In any case I think dhdh71 should go with one of the dc Maxstars or possibly the CST 250. He could spend the money he saved by sticking to dc on a set of anvils and his first tig/practice project could be building an english wheel.
                              I like your thinking! Oh how I could use a new home built english wheel! I love tools(like we all do!)

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                              • #45
                                Oldsparks, appologies sir it looked like a butt joint in the first picture, It is much more difficult to evaluate 100% penetration in a tee joint.

                                Peace,

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