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  • #16
    Blown S-10,

    Is your balance 72% or higher the 10% of the time the tungsten does not ball? You can acutally set the balance far enough to the + side to disintegrate the tungsten-around 50%. Somewhere between 60% and 68% you may see some balling like you are speaking about. You should also see wide whitish cleaning lines around your welds on aluminum within these balance settings.

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    • #17
      i normally have balance around 70-80. and try to keep the cleaning area about the width of the tungston, or maybe a bit less. i have an idea i'm going to test out this weekend.

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      • #18
        Blown S-10,

        That sounds good. Let me know what you find.

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        • #19
          If you're set on getting small and large bottles you might want to set up for filling your small btl from the big one. People do this with oxy bottles and no reason it can't be done with argon. If you have to drag the small bottle down to the store to be refilled each time you will probably be disappointed especially for what they charge to refill it.

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          • #20
            I would like to clear the air about the Dynasty 200 DX and any inverter based power source about the use of tungsten,
            You will NEVER ruin the machine using pure tungsten, this machine was designed to take advantage of the rear earth tungstens because of there hardness.
            The biggest advantage of using the 200 is being able to keep a sharp point on the tunsten and you cannot do this with pure because it will ball back because of it's properties. Thorium, Lanthanium, and Cerium all have 1 to 2% of there respected elements that makes them harder.

            You can use pure for a short time providing you turn up the frequency and adjust the start parameters and put a taper on the tungsten, however it will not last.

            Frequency and Balance are the 2 most important adjustments when it comes to maintaining a pointed tungsten, 120Hz and 70 to 75% on the balance will weld just about any thickness of aluminum very well.
            Of course as you increase thickness I would just increase the frequency as this is what gives you control over keeping a point and more penatration, you can use a lower balance setting as long as you keep a high frequency if you require more cleaning.
            Mark K.
            Welding Technician
            Miller Electric Mfg. Co.

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            • #21
              Protig, are you an engineer for miller? If not, then why do all the miller reps tell you not to use pure. Also a while back there was an article in American Welder specifically dealing with this issue, AND not using PURE on inverter based machines due to it working the machine harder than necessary!

              Sorry for being, blunt but I have no reason to doubt ANDY or HAWK or TRI-MIX from AWS's site, not to mention a few others. I own a D200DX and will never use Pure on it!

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              • #22
                i would also like to know where it is you get this info that is against all info givin by miller and its rep's. as well as a few people that have had problems with there dynasty due to the use of pure tung.

                who are you to give such clearly damaging advice ???
                thanks for the help
                ......or..........
                hope i helped
                sigpic
                feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. [email protected]
                summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
                JAMES

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Protig
                  I would like to clear the air about the Dynasty 200 DX and any inverter based power source about the use of tungsten,
                  You will NEVER ruin the machine using pure tungsten, this machine was designed to take advantage of the rear earth tungstens because of there hardness.
                  The biggest advantage of using the 200 is being able to keep a sharp point on the tunsten and you cannot do this with pure because it will ball back because of it's properties. Thorium, Lanthanium, and Cerium all have 1 to 2% of there respected elements that makes them harder.

                  You can use pure for a short time providing you turn up the frequency and adjust the start parameters and put a taper on the tungsten, however it will not last.

                  Frequency and Balance are the 2 most important adjustments when it comes to maintaining a pointed tungsten, 120Hz and 70 to 75% on the balance will weld just about any thickness of aluminum very well.
                  Of course as you increase thickness I would just increase the frequency as this is what gives you control over keeping a point and more penatration, you can use a lower balance setting as long as you keep a high frequency if you require more cleaning.
                  PRO-TIG,

                  As the pure tungsten balls it disperses the arc energy and causes the inverter engine to work much harder than necessary. While using pure tungsten for a short amount of time may not damage the Dynasty, it is certainly neither a good nor recommended practice. Do you have a reason for using pure with an inverter engine power source? If so, I am certainly interested.

                  I am confused about your statement of "keep a high frequency if you require more cleaning."

                  Once the Dynasty has started the arc the high frequency cuts off. The advanced square wave arc of the Dynasty in not maintained by high frequency. Therefore, your EN balance will not affect the high frequency since it is not present.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by HAWK
                    PRO-TIG,

                    I am confused about your statement of "keep a high frequency if you require more cleaning."

                    Once the Dynasty has started the arc the high frequency cuts off. The advanced square wave arc of the Dynasty in not maintained by high frequency. Therefore, your EN balance will not affect the high frequency since it is not present.
                    i believe that what he was referring to is that on the 200DX, you can control the frequency used during AC welding (not the Hz initially used to start the arc) from 20-250Hz. this allows you to change the shape and profile of the arc. using a higher frequency creates a thinner bead with more penetration; a lower Hz creates a wider bead with less penetration.
                    -SPiNNeR-

                    Hobart 135
                    Oxy-Acet w/ Victor torch
                    Dynasty 200 DX

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                    • #25
                      Pro TIG,

                      You mentioned changing start parameters. Which paramaters would you alter and why? Polarity? Start amperage? ???

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                      • #26
                        spinner, thank you for that answer you certinaly understand what I was refering to when talking about OUTPUT FREQUENCY.

                        As for my statement about pure tungsten I was not suggesting using it on a Dynasty, I was just trying to correct a misconception about it recking the unit. I still stand by that statement, it can not happen. And cerium is the best choice to use when welding aluminum with a Dynasty.

                        Here is a case in point, there are a lot of businesses today welding anodized aluminum and some require a wider arc cone for a given joint design.
                        When using a Dynasty and 2% thoriated 1/8" tungsten they form a ball on the tungsten (by using more ep with the balance control), however you need to increase the start parmeters to some where around 100 amps @ 100 mil. sec. to get it to start in this condition.
                        So if this ball was bad for the machine they would not be having the success that they are.
                        These are all good responces to my origional quote, and this is how we all learn thank you all.
                        Mark K.
                        Welding Technician
                        Miller Electric Mfg. Co.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          PRO TIG,

                          Why do you say a ceriated tungsten alloy is the best choice for welding AL with the Dynasty? Why is it better than 1.5% or 2% lanthanated or rare earth tri-mixes such as supplied by Diamond Ground?

                          Since you impressed the use of arc frequency for narrowing and widening the arc cone why would you suggest the balling of thoriated tungsten to create a wider arc cone for welding anodized. Yes a great enough EP balance will ball any tungsten alloy with the Dynasty, but it seems the balling is only a negative side effect. It is likely the actual reason for the high EP balance when welding anodized AL is for the exaggerated cleaning action of the arc.

                          The use of helium as a shielding gas with the Dynasty series has been a very successful for welding anodized AL in industry today. In this case the increased arc frequency is used to re-align the arc width closer to what argon would produce: a narrower more constricted arc.

                          Another successful and economical process for welding anodized AL is a He/Ar mix with the Dynasty utilizing the machine's high pulse rate and increased arc frequency.

                          What are you thoughts on these processes?

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Blown S-10
                            i normally have balance around 70-80. and try to keep the cleaning area about the width of the tungston, or maybe a bit less. i have an idea i'm going to test out this weekend.
                            i tried my idea, didn't work . i was welding .090 3003. my idea was, more gas, 20+psi, and more EN, 85. the beads are cleaner now. but it still balls. welds were fine.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Protig
                              spinner, thank you for that answer you certinaly understand what I was refering to when talking about OUTPUT FREQUENCY.

                              As for my statement about pure tungsten I was not suggesting using it on a Dynasty, I was just trying to correct a misconception about it recking the unit. I still stand by that statement, it can not happen. And cerium is the best choice to use when welding aluminum with a Dynasty.

                              Here is a case in point, there are a lot of businesses today welding anodized aluminum and some require a wider arc cone for a given joint design.
                              When using a Dynasty and 2% thoriated 1/8" tungsten they form a ball on the tungsten (by using more ep with the balance control), however you need to increase the start parmeters to some where around 100 amps @ 100 mil. sec. to get it to start in this condition.
                              So if this ball was bad for the machine they would not be having the success that they are.
                              These are all good responces to my origional quote, and this is how we all learn thank you all.
                              I apologize for mis-reading your comments and confusing a high arc frequency with high frequency.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by HAWK
                                Pro TIG,

                                You mentioned changing start parameters. Which paramaters would you alter and why? Polarity? Start amperage? ???
                                Hawk
                                To answer your question about Start Parameters, Miller has a default setting in all of their Dynasty 200,300 and Maxstar 200, 300 machines so you can change the initinal amperage at which the machine starts (default is 40 amps @ 40 mil.sec. EP for AC polarity and 25 or 30 amps @ 3 mil.sec. EN for DC)
                                These can be changed thru a hidden menu for different starting Amperages for different times.
                                With that being said now you can see that changing them will help you when changing materials or thicknesses and different sizes of tungsten.
                                If I were to weld on say .020 aluminum and my weld amperage is about 30 amps or less to do this I would not want to start at 40 amps.
                                And with EP as the starting polarity the current wants to travel to the tungsten first to insure a better start.
                                Mark K.
                                Welding Technician
                                Miller Electric Mfg. Co.

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