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  • mig gas fumes diffrence

    i recently switched jobs and i was used to welding with co2 now i weld with c25 and i noticed im having trouble breathing after i weld for a long period of time is there that much diffrence in the gases that it would choke me.

    im welding in dumpsters now instead of welding in the open like i was used to before because the place i work for now makes trash dumpsters
    to weld or not to weld that is the question

  • #2
    If you're actually in the dumpster you may be running out of breathing air even with the lid open.I don't know if C25 heavier than air but I would definately find out and concider a fresh air system.
    Pete
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    • #3
      I had the same problem but with a different gas. I was welding alum for long peroids of time with argon gas. I ended up finding another job, just to be stuck right back on the end of an alum spool gun. The gas does displace the oxygen in tight spaces. Find a way to exhaust the fumes of add fresh air to the job. Say something to your foreman and have them make it right...Bob
      Bob Wright

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      • #4
        Do yourself a favor and if you are welding down inside the bin get a fresh air supplied hood. Argon and Co2 are both heavier than air and will displace the oxygen.

        They use Co2 in some hog butcher plants to kill the pigs. Since it is heavier than air they fill a shallow pit with it and run the pigs through it. They come out the far side dead.

        Get some fresh air before you end up the same way. Im surprised the company doesnt have some kind of requirement for fresh air supply. You should never weld in an enclosed space like that without some kind of air supply.

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        • #5
          thanks for all the info i was thinking that my air was depleted and yes i am in the dumpsters welding the bottom on solid. i was welding the lil ones you often see at peoples houses or small apartment complexs. thanks to all of you for this info i may owe my life to you guys.

          btw..do u think a welding respirator would be a good investment?
          to weld or not to weld that is the question

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          • #6
            Big...you can never be too safe, so a respirator is always a good idea. BUT, keep in mind, if breathable atmosphere is being displaced by a heavier gas, a respirator will not help you as it will not generate what is not there. You may very well feel the same as you do now. Can you turn the dumpsters on their backs and still do the job? This way the "bad" gas should roll right out.
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            • #7
              As stated above, simply a filter mask type respirator isnt going to give you oxygen that is being displaced by the co2 and argon. If you are going to weld in a confined space like that you need a fresh air supplied hood. That is the only way you are going to weld safely. As stated above, turning it on its side will be better than nothing, but you are still in an enclosed space and with no air movement or with a slight breeze going the wrong way it could still cause the gasses to build up in the enclosure and cause you problems.

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              • #8
                At least on the side he wouldnt die in one, absolutely if you are in the bottom running 20 cf an hr you could kill yourself in half hr to 45 minutes, once you drop you would be laying on the bottom and there may be no warning, just keel. This is definately a bad plan sitting inside and welding. I would flip them on side.

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                • #9
                  Bigwelder,

                  I don't think a respirator is your answer. You need a helmet that supplies fresh air containing oxygen. The CO2 and Argon are both heavy gasses and will settle in the bottom of your lungs and eventually suffocate you as the amount of heavy gasses increases the room for oxygenated air decreases. Either find a way to exhaust the air out of the dumpsters and replentish it with fresh air or get a welding helmet specifically designed to provide fresh air. I used to weld in boilers and heat exchanger tubes and we used a flexible hose hooked to an exhausting fan to draw out the welding fumes and another was pushing fresh air into the tubes so we didn't end up suffocating.

                  A respirator will only filter out contaminants, while it's a good idea to wear a respirator while grinding and welding in open areas it isn't the answer you're looking for for this situation.

                  Good luck with solving your problem
                  Blondie
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                  • #10
                    Welding in a dumpster

                    Argon and CO2 are both heavier than air. Argon will displace the oxygen in the air and you will suffocate. It has happened many times before. CO2 will also kill you. One good wif of CO2 will knock you down and then you will die. I've been exposed before and I did not believe how it can affect you. You can search the web and find lots of cases where workers have been overcome in confined spaces and other poeple have gone into retrieve them only to lose thier lives also. OSHA has very strict rules about "confined spaces". Your employer is taking a big risk with your health and his business by not following the rules. DO NOT go into the bottom on an enclosed (like a dumpster) and weld.

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                    • #11
                      Would the alloy or coating also be an issue? I wouldn't be surprised if they used something to prevent corrosion, which may also be affecting the air.

                      Back to the gasses, take the comments above very seriously. It's been a few years now, but when they were building the TI plant here in Dallas several years ago, two welders were killed by argon. The first was TIG welding in a confined space and passed out. His partner climbed down to pull him out and was also overcome. I don't know the details, but it makes me sick to think that this could have so easily been prevented.

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                      • #12
                        bigwelder,

                        You should not be forced to perform any job that you feel is unsafe. OSHA has strict guidelines about safety procedures, and if your employer is in violation they can put the company in a world of hurt.

                        I strongly agree with the fresh air helmet system as noted, whether the dumpster is on it's side or not.

                        How was this product welded before you were put to the task?

                        I would think that by now there would be available an inexpensive O2 sensor that you can wear on your belt which could alarm you when available oxygen is at a unsafe level.

                        Don't do anything your Boss wouldn't do himself.

                        Keep Healthy.

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                        • #13
                          i do not know how it was welded before i came along because as previously stated i just started with this company thru a temp service i think monday i am going to bring it to the attention of my boss at the temp service because they handle all unsafe working complaints
                          to weld or not to weld that is the question

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                          • #14
                            "to weld or not to weld that is the question"

                            "to weld or not to weld" when your health may be jeopardized at someone else’s profit is a “no brainer”.

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                            • #15
                              Big,
                              Let me start by saying I agree that it sounds like an unsafe condition! One thing though I would like to bring a different perspective to this thred. I would like for you to think of your employer. Before you run to O.S.H.O. or your temp. employer talk to the guy thats paying you. Tell him about your concern and let him know your just looking out for your own safety. Tell him your not talking to anyone but him. Ask him for his help and let him know that you appreciate the job and let him know that you would like steady work. If you play your cards right you might get a steady job. I can tell you this as an employer I would do alot more for a employee that would come to me and talk over his concerns before he went to O.S.H.A. or someone else...As hard as it is to find decent employees employers don't want to loose ones that will work for thier pay instead just showing up to collect what ever pay they think there entitled to. Give your employer the benefit of the doubt. Talk to him and let him know of any unsafe conditions. I think you'll be happy with his response.
                              Good Luck,
                              Bulldog

                              P.S.- Be careful don't do anything that would risk your safety. The monies not worth it! If he doesn't fix the problem - MOVE ON!
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