Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Beware of the Pipepro 304!!!!!

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Differing opinions....

    I see a forum like this as a place to tell the manufactuter about problems so that they are guided into solving them. You see it as a place to bolw sunshine up.....


    As for your lemon law truck, did you contact your State Attorney General? Did you contact a lemon law attorney? No way a four month old truck could not be returned for FULL payment price. I had a friend that I negotiated a deal with Chrysler for a minivan. The seat belts were defective and replaced five times. After they went bad again, we got him full price that he paid for the van, money for rental cars, and five thousand off of a new Chrysler. Not bad for a van with 54,000 miles.

    I cut bait all of the time. Some times I even decide that I do not want to cut bait and make an example of the manufacturer. I am as spiteful as the next person. If WE do no help this guy out, manufacturers will give the doorway warranty. This means when the item hits the doorway, the warranty ends. This is a big decision that this buyer has made. He is ensuring that the rest of us will get better treatment by exposing the troubles with his experience. Dont you think this has raised a few eyebrows at Miller to see the problems with this product and the way his incident is being handled?

    Whether you think his problems are petty or not, they are still small problems. When a product cannot be used for a small problem the product is still unusable. Too many of these causes the product to be a lemon. I would be guessing that this is the case here.

    While you may not agree with my points here, you can not argue with their validity.

    Comment


    • #32
      leon,
      If you look back, MILLER has honored the warranty on EVERY Miller situation with this unit even getting him a loaner to use for free which is something Miller doesn't have to do. There is no case of manufacturer ducking here and your insinuation that there is and that an example be made of MILLER seems harsh to me. The engines have ALWAYS been warranted by the engine manufacturer. That's true for all welder and generator companies. For you to only take this mans side of the story and formulate an action plan of us bowing to his every need is quite bold. I will not put this man's whole service record out there for all to see. It's not fair to him as some of these repairs were not Miller's fault. You need a better open mind. I like your story about the seat belts. That's a fairly serious, life threatening problem where I could see your results fit the situation. I hardly think the same is true here. Nobody getting killed from a meter calibration or burnt weld terminal from a loose connection.
      And as far as ITW Miller, It's been for 12 years. I was a service engineer then and can tell you the same regard for warranty and service are in place today as back then or do you think we should roll over for anything? Again, Miller has taken care of this customer on every Miller warranty issue right down to the capacitor, diode or whatever.
      I'm sorry for his inconvenience, I truly am. It's not any fun to be without your money maker, been there too. There is still a protocol for handling warranty situations and *****ing on this site is not getting anything done any faster. This site is not for blowing sunshine either, I help where I can help and when it comes down to turning the problem over to the service department, that's about all I can do. I don't have THAT much pull at Miller but I would love to wave my magic wand over his machine and make it better. Until Miller decides these are indeed habitual failures or a lemon and not self induced, they will have to fix each problem as they arrise.
      BTW,
      Has anyone heard from weldingwagon??? He should have the loaner machine by now.

      Andy

      Comment


      • #33
        Glad to hear

        Andy,

        Glad to hear that progress is being made on this issue. I am curious what type of progress was happening before the complaint here. From what I am informed on the AWS site and here, this issue has been on the burner for some time. What is funny is that you are willing to put his service ticket here, but you have not made one claim of weldingwagon telling any mistruths. I still have not heard any attempts to change the poor way that your warranty procedure has been handling this product.

        There may not be any life threatening items here, but the mature realization that he has invested a significant amount of money and time in one of your products should be realized. Lip service that you are concerned, does nothing for your attempt to fix his troubles. Depending on his situation, he may have a loan for the machine. He may have also took a home equity loan to pay for the product. Both of these mentioned, your sympathy should extend a little more than the amount it did. Loans have interest, they keep coming regardless if the machine works and is making money. That is the reason why BOTH you and weldingwagon are in business. It seems you got paid and now he wants to make money with your product and is not. He held up his end of the deal. Your self imposed warranty procedure is now the snag? I am sure there are ways around the procedures and now that he is airing the dirty laundry, he is put on the bottom of the list for both priority and helpability. I would be willing to bet that there was no payment procedure other than no money no welder. Noble idea, huh?

        Lets hope this forum will help stop horror stories like this. Thanks for helping this user get to the promised land of a good Miller welder.

        Comment


        • #34
          Well said Andy.

          Leon
          You aren't big on making friends are you. Well I guess I can respect that, sorta. If you think I blow sunshine, then you don't know me at all. Enough said, I'm staying civil.

          As for my truck situation, you assume I am not smart enough to figure all that crap out, do you? You assume too much. All avenues were persued to the extent possible. The technicality was almost a loophole and could not be refuted or sidestepped. I will refrain from spelling out the actual problem here, but suffice to say that it was handled the only way it could have been. I got another, and my last Ford. Ford was not getting it done. Dodge now has my money. It is getting it done so far.

          I am not a spiteful person. I refuse to make a point at my own expense. I have way too much to do all the time. If a piece of equipment is not doing the job, it is history, end of story. My business has been around and weathered some tough times. Irefuse to make my own problems. I am not really brand loyal. I am loyal to equipment that get's it done. If Miller doesn't get it done, then I will need to switch again. I severely doubt that will be the case. In 20 years, I have seen them come through too many times. I do not have that kind of experience with Lincoln. It was all bad. In their defense, I understand they are improving greatly which is good for them. My money is still with the Blue guys.


          Stepping off the soapbox, once again.
          Don


          '06 Trailblazer 302
          '06 12RC feeder
          Super S-32P feeder

          HH210 & DP3035 spool gun
          Esab Multimaster 260
          Esab Heliarc 252 AC/DC

          Comment


          • #35
            I'm not saying he has no issue and not speaking truths. His truth or point of view. His first complaint was that the main control pot turned hard. (machine still worked) Replaced pcb that pot was mounted to. These usually turn hard from some sort of impact. He also had an issue of a meter calibration that didn't match the output cables. (machine still worked) Replaced pcb again. Third, he had an output stud burn up from his loose connection which was probably causing the meter calibration issue.
            Our self imposed warranty is the best in the industry and we have deviated from it to get him a free loaner. He is not on the bottom of the list and from what I know, He didn't even pick up his free loaner yet. The ball's been in his court.

            Comment


            • #36
              10-12 down days in 7 months is not a huge amount. Welding wagon said on the AWS board that someone in Miller needs to step up to the plate before he goes Chapter 11. Sounds a little too dramatic to me. One could loose that much time to weather easily.

              Not trying to make light of your situation WW, I hope you get the troubles fixed.
              Don


              '06 Trailblazer 302
              '06 12RC feeder
              Super S-32P feeder

              HH210 & DP3035 spool gun
              Esab Multimaster 260
              Esab Heliarc 252 AC/DC

              Comment


              • #37
                baffled

                Lets just for a second assume that the 4 failures in (only 2 resulted in the welder being down, the stud and engine issue) were all due to Miller, which can be debated, and not due at all to the operator. What I am not understanding is the welder was bought in Sept 2002 and it has 1307 hours. At 235 working days per year that averages out to using it about 2.4 hours/day of the roughly 545 days that this welder was in service. Or instead we could say that it would work for 1 good 12 hour day/week. Or approximatley 4 days/month. Or only 52-12 hour days/entire calendar year. Lets not look at the fact that most people have seen a Saturday or Sunday worth of working in 2 years because that would only skew the numbers more.

                Now 10 lost days equates to 24 lost hours (at the 2.4 hrs/day average we have compiled over 2+ years) on 1307 running hours, or approximately 98.2% uptime for this welder (1307hours actual/1331 hours possible). Because if we used the fact that it welded 1-12 hour day/week the question would be asked could it get fixed on the other 4 days of the week when it had off and not cause any problems to getting jobs done. If I measure it like i did like when i was a quality and reliability engineer we could also say its averaging 653 hours mean time between failures. Either way, I would love for all my equipment to run 98.2% of the time or 653 hours between failures.

                I find it hard to understand that something that is used very part time (12 hours/week demonstrated history) at best can have such an effect on a business, like as claimed 'make the business go under'. What occupies the other 30 hours/week of this business's work or like most of the hard working individuals out there the other 40-50 hours of their work weeks, because most of us dont stop at 9-5 mon-fri.

                Don't get me wrong, I too hope the problems get fixed, but from what I understand, I just dont get it. I understand that when you need a piece of equipment you would like it to work, but in the real world you have to adapt to the situation. I just cant see what the real issue is with this. Sorry. Didnt mean to confuse this issue with facts and logic.

                Bo

                Comment


                • #38
                  interesting math

                  Bo,

                  Great way to skew the numbers to make the piece of equipment seem like it is a gem. If you read his complaint comletely, he was down 10 days in seven months, and this is not counting the last and fatal blow of the motor. Since there are twelve months in a year, and there are two years and four months since the purchase, the ten day figure is complete irrelevant considering the number of days down is way more than ten. Each day since the beginning of the post would add to the 'relaibility' of the machine. I am sure as a purchaser of the machine, the first few incidents were not tracked since they were considered minor. The amount of down time was not mentioned for that reason.

                  His complaint was started on the 15th of the month HERE. This is at least fifteen days, plus the other ten, plus the other time not accounted for in the figures you calculated in your relaibility engineer figures. With my BS in Areospace Engineering, we would need complete days down to get the true number of days down to completely calculate the rate.

                  I guess you didnt read the whole first post. There were a couple of guys, if I rememeber correctly that had over 3,000 hours on their pipepro welders.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by ASKANDY
                    Well, to use your Ford example,
                    If we did have habitual failures of this unit from numberous customers, I could see your point in replacing the unit. The fact is, we don't.
                    The Pipepro is a solid machine in our line up.



                    A-
                    I guess I'll chime in on the PipePro. I've had mine for over 3 yrs. It was in the shop for a stator replacement, just before Miller put out a recall on it, or so I was told. I get a HELP 1 code on occassion, mostly after it has rained the day before. I weld natural gas pipeline, and like one poster stated, no sparky sparky, no dinero. They have replaced the circuit board with a current production board, and sent a bag to cover it. Tech support states that it is a moisture problem, or operator error. Only problem with operator error, is that the HELP 1 code is thrown while in the high or low idle setting. I copied a post I made on another forum.
                    __________________________________________________ _______________

                    I'm wondering if anyone has any knowledge about this machine. Can't seem to figure out what is wrong with it, and the tech support up north hasn't a clue. I've had this machine for 3 yrs now, and it is out of warranty. I weld natural gas pipeline, and the machine starts throwing a HELP 1 code. Tech support replaced the main circuit board a few months ago, with the current board in production, and they also included a bag to enclose the board. They say it is a moisture problem. What happens is that when you touch the stick to the pipe, a little spark, and then it shuts down the current. I run a remote control, the 125 foot expensive little son of a gun. The code is thrown when in the remote position, and the panel position, but the AC current still flows to the plugs in the remote box. Any one got any clues?
                    Attached Files

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      I found it interesting where another poster was calculating hours worked, and engine hours. I do distribution work, as I quit following the firing line. The machine sits more than it is used, but you have to be there to get the job done. While you are waiting, whether it be a tap and stop off, or waiting on ditch, if the machine doesn't work when needed, it can be an unfortunate scenario. After 3 yrs of ownership of the pipepro, I have around 1100 hrs clocked, but I don't believe that the hour meter runs when plugged into the shop outlet. All in all, I like the machine, I just wish to quit getting the HELP 1 code. The rep in my area will bend over backwards for me, and is a real nice fellow. I even have his cell phone number, but I'd rather find out if someone else is having this problem, and if they have corrected it.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        b-footn

                        Nice rig. Could it be a prob with the remote? Dunno, just thinking outloud. You guys really aren't in ideal conditions for electrical anything. Mud, wet, dust, etc. It just sounded like a problem we had with a machine that had a short that fed back on the machine and caused another fault. Hope you get her up and running.
                        Don


                        '06 Trailblazer 302
                        '06 12RC feeder
                        Super S-32P feeder

                        HH210 & DP3035 spool gun
                        Esab Multimaster 260
                        Esab Heliarc 252 AC/DC

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by DDA52
                          b-footn

                          Nice rig. Could it be a prob with the remote? Dunno, just thinking outloud. You guys really aren't in ideal conditions for electrical anything. Mud, wet, dust, etc. It just sounded like a problem we had with a machine that had a short that fed back on the machine and caused another fault. Hope you get her up and running.
                          I'm not putting that out of the question, but if you turn the knob from remote to panel, it should take the remote cable out of the problem. I dunno, just looking for answers right now.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            I've just remembered something else. It never has happened while welding small pipe, with a 3/32 rod. Only when I crank up the heat for larger pipe. Happened yesterday while welding up some 4 inch for a creek crossing. Aggravating, but after stopping and starting the machine for about 15 minutes, it corrected itself. I am somewhat at a loss as to the operator error analogy that Lee or Les or whatever his name is on Tech support. He told the service tech where I had the machine that I most likely have it on low idle position, demanding too much heat, where I should have it on high idle position for the load. If the machine is in the mood to throw the HELP 1 code, I am in the high idle position, but if you switch to low, it will burn rods, as long as you let the machine idle down after running the grinder. Yesterday, I was in the 120 amp range, burning a 1/8 rod, in the low idle position. This is in parameters for low idle, according to the book. Hopefully someone can help me out, whether it is my error, or where to look in the electronics.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Yo B-footn,

                              There was a rotor issue on the early ones but if you have a new one, that shouldn't be part of your problem unless the generator wasn't serviced correctly and the output is off. A help 1 is a primary power failure code that could come from a number of things. Sounds like you may have checked most of the obvious stuff like cables tight and good shape, are you coiling a bunch of cable up and trying to run only a small amount off? This coiled wire will cause current surges that may trip this code. The code could also be a "phantom" code that the microprocessor is giving and not a real failure of the power circuit. There is a check for this and it involves taking a check of the ribbon cable between the front pcb and the main pcb to check if the coorect voltage is present while in a code default. This is tough to check as the machine would have to be in that fault to check. I suspect that this might be the problem as most help 1 codes that are real are also "real perminant" and not intermittent like yours.
                              So in summary, it could be:
                              bad connections or cable
                              lots of coiled cable while trying to weld
                              generator output a little low and when you try the large rods it kicks the code
                              hic-up in the micro

                              What is the ser# and who did the service in the past?

                              Andy

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                I have 150ft of 2/0 cable both ways coiled up. You can see the rack in the pic I posted. I normally only have 10-20 foot of the cable stretched to the pipe. I had 100 foot of the cable stretched out to the weld and the HELP 1 code appeared.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X