Beware of the Pipepro 304!!!!!

[Blondie_486]

In the meantime....I will load on my rig the old ugly (yet very relaible) 6000hr plus Hobart. Never read the operators manual on it though.

I'll second that! Revlimit hit the nail square on the head. But if I remember correctly I do believe he said he had an old Hobart that he was going to have to put on his rig and use. So it would seem he did have a back up just didn't want to use it. Or just wanted to make some noise.

The engine problem isn't Miller's problem it's Kubota's problem. I've had Bobcats with Kubota engines on them and abused them severely and never had problems. It could be a one in a million problem the engine had.

I think someone just wants to come in here and do some "Blue Bashing"! Well to us "True Blue" fans it won't work! I know it hasn't changed my opinion of the "Blue" machines one little bit. My "Green" will always be for "Blue"!!

Blondie

[weldingwagon]

An update to the Pipepro saga. I was promised that a nnew machine or a loaner form Miller would arrive last friday whole they figure out the Partucular problems with my mahcine. In the meantime, I put a new front seal in and was off to welding and then BAM!!!! elecronic problems again. Logged a whole 4 hours on it.

In reply to so many of you that have responed....the issue here is honoring the warranty. Yes they have sent me PC boards etc but the bottom line of any business is that income is generated. Hence the "no sparky sparky".

This Particular machine is plagued with some sort of major electrical problem deep inside its brain. I can live and have lived with in the past equipment that does break as it is the nature of any machine. But to have a rather new low hour very expensive machine break down time and time again suggests that it suffers from more than the average minor inconvenience.

Let me know what day I can drop it off in Appleton...I'm only 4 hours away.

[tackit]

These two quotes origionally posted by weldingwagon.

"I've been down all week and looks like the rest of the week is shot....if not next week too. Miller owes me a new or rebuilt machine!"

"You obviously don't understand the world of rig welders. No sparky sparky means no dinero....."
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I obviously don’t understand the world of your thought processing.

I have to say that if my only source of income and lifestyle as you seem to be depicting, was solely dependent on one piece of mechanical equipment working flawlessly 100% of the time, I would be a fool if I wasn’t prepared with a back-up plan of some kind in the event of a major problem.

No mechanical piece of equipment from any manufacture is exempt from problems minor or major. If you were as **** bent with being prepared for a problem with your equipment as you are with blaming Miller for something they may have no control over, you may have had next to no down time.

Don’t blame the Miller Welder for “No sparky sparky” blame the Welder.

Speaks poorly of Miller when you have to buy two machines to make sure you have one running, I would imagine pipeliners know their equipment well and don't mind spending thousands of dollars buying it, expecting it to run is not a character flaw.


VBI if it was you in trouble you be crying the loudest, I've seen it a thousand a times, brown not blue is the color in your post.

[weldingwagon]

Very well put tackit. I simply don't have the room on my rig or the money to carry a spare machine around to every pipeline job. My expectation from this machine is to have it run consistently. It does not have 5000 hours on it but it runs like it does. With a mere 1312 hours as of today I would think that the down time should be minimal. I know that machines break but this many times is totally unacceptable. From the electronics to the engine this machine is killing me. Maybe one of Miller's reliability engineers should call me to discuss the machine....

[VBI]

Speaks poorly of Miller when you have to buy two machines to make sure you have one running, I would imagine pipeliners know their equipment well and don't mind spending thousands of dollars buying it, expecting it to run is not a character flaw.


VBI if it was you in trouble you be crying the loudest, I've seen it a thousand a times, brown not blue is the color in your post.

tackit

Where did you read that? I did not say he needs two machines I said “a back up plan of some kind.”

I expect my $31,000.00 two year old truck to run every day not just work days. If my truck quits running and I can’t get to work, I do not sit at home and wait for it to be fixed. I arrange for alternate transportation so I can get to work.

Expecting a ‘potential’ problem is also not a character flaw.

I have a back up sump pump. I have a 12,000 watt generator to keep my sump pump, well pump, furnace, frig and a light or two on in the event of a power failure.

Having a serious problem that interrupts your normal daily activities and costs you money would not put me and most people I know in the best of moods or conversations. There are a number of ways to let out a little steam when one is frustrated. I did not appreciate the way the steam was being let out and felt defensive to some of the comments made, just as I do with your last comment.

Right out of the box he set the tone for his thread. What did he expect from a Diehard Miller user forum and others.

I am finding out that my limited vocabulary and poor communication skills are often misconstrued. My point of being prepared is well-ment

I hope he has found a solution to his problems and will regain confidence in his equipment. I am confident that at the very least, Miller has honored their warrantee as stated for his machine. I also did not jump to any conclusions when I read his comments and tactfully imply that he was full of anything as you have of me.

[DDA52]

I know Miller will honor their warranty. I've had too much experience with them to doubt it for a minute. I have even seen them honor a warranty type repair that was NOT covered at the time. Lincoln is another story and it ain't a good one either. That is why my fleet, such as it is, has always been BLUE and always will be. Kubota may be another story. Time will tell.

Equipment breaks down, that is a fact of life in this world. One always needs a backup plan for the times Mr. Murphy pays a visit. If you depend on equipment and don't have a plan....you won't survive long. That too is a fact of business. I run and depend upon equipment on a daily basis. I have suffered everything from minor irritations to catastrophic failure. The result was always the same. Get the trouble fixed asap, or get it replaced so progress can continue. By replaced I mean that the failed unit was replaced by a rental while repairs commenced or a new one was placed in service. Many times I have to meet deadlines. The contractors do not want to hear about problems, they want to see results. To continue doing their work, one does what one must to get the job done. Sometimes you may have to bite the bullet to get it done. Hopefully that doesn't happen often. That is why most use newer equipment. While it may not be pleasant to have a new machine go down, it does happen every day, but work cannot stop because of it.

Weldingwagon, if you are so unhappy with the Pipe Pro 304, then liquidate it and get something else. You may have to take a hit, but that is business. Always has been, always will be. Your continued frustration can't be a good thing for you or your family. Life is way too short to keep on beating yourself up like that. Hope you get this resolved soon.

[tackit]

Every situation is different. I'm sure a pipeliner doesn't have a place to keep a spare machine on hand or near by, for that matter he could be miles away from a place where he could rent one, that's purpose of buying a new machine.

The problem here is the machine not having a back up plan. It's not *****ing when someone buys a new machine and expects it to work, as far as Murphy goes he ain't involved, Miller is.

If it stays running long enough I'm sure he will have earned enough capital to create a back up plan that includes helicopters, Humvees and caterpillars to track him down in the field and drop off his backup plan machine.

[weldingwagon]

The issue I am trying to get across here is one of ethics and integrity. I will use the Ford Motor Company as an example. When Ford came out with the 6.0 liter engine in their super duty's there were many trucks that had electronic problems from day one. Owners that had repeated problems recieved a new truck.

For the uneducated the world of pipelining and portable welding is not the typical "shop" type of work. The enviroment is not good and it seems that if it's not raining it's snowing etc etc... My pipepro cost $9900 from the dealer. It's worth alot less than that at this point....it simply doesn't weld!
I will not take a "hit" for Miller's problem.

The purpose for the tone of my post is to draw Miller's attention to their shortcomings. Business is business and my business is to weld and make money. Work is work....not fun. The grocery store doesn't care where my money came from ....only that I have enough to pay for the groceries.

The pipepro is off the truck and my Hobart is back on. Now I'm off to some remote place to weld. I will not deny that the pipepro has an unbeatable arc. That arc must arc more than it doesn't.

I don't care if my welding machine is blue, red, or purple....it just has to do the job. I honestly thought that the pipepro would stand up to the challenge of the rugged pipeliner world when I spent my hard earned money....I was wrong and many many pipeliners have watched me as I roll my cables up before the end of the day because my machine is down....again.

[Revlimit]

Sweeeeeet.

[ASKANDY]

Well, to use your Ford example,
If we did have habitual failures of this unit from numberous customers, I could see your point in replacing the unit. The fact is, we don't.
The Pipepro is a solid machine in our line up.

What's the electronic failure now?

A-

[tackit]

weldingwagon have you checked for termites and carpenter ants? Your problems could stem from those pesky little critters eating the wood in your welding machine.

[DDA52]

Tackit
If a weldorwants to stay running and making money, he will do what it takes to get it done, no matter what. Differing situations aside, if there is a will or a need, make it happen and get on with it. Life is too short to screw around with a dead horse. Either revive it, or get another horse. Murphy will visit everyone sooner or later. New equipment goes down, too. If it continues, change to something better. It really is that simple.

Weldingwagon
I too am very familiar with the demands of moblie welding, being in the business since 1984. While it isn't my main line at the moment, I still am in the biz. If the machine isn't cutting it, get rid of it. You are taking a hit in lost time and aggrevation.....a bigger hit if it continues. Figure up your time lost, repairs you have paid for, the extra trips, etc. You are in a hole and going deeper. My machinery costs a lot more than 10k, but if necessary, I will replace them in a hurry. Lost time racks up quickly. If you do not get a handle on it it WILL eat you for lunch. That is why I no longer have a Lincoln.
As has been said over and over again, every situation is different. The bottom line however is not. If you are not making money with the current setup;be it a computer and printer, hand tools or a welding rig; you have the wrong setup and need to make changes asap or your business is doomed. The attitude I can understand, because I have been there many times and will be in the future I'm sure. However, it detracts and turns off those you are seeking help from. I have been there, done that also. I know from experience that civility will get you much farther than anything else. The people you are hooting at did not build your machine or cause your problem, but they can make it worse if given enough incentive.

I've rambled enough. If what I say helps, great. If not,........that's life.

[leon phelps]

jumping in here

Wow, So many bad points that are spoken here that it is amazing.

First there is no excuse for a manufacturer not completely spec'ing out electronic components down to the diode and amnufacturer part number. This is the complete job of the electrical engineer to design with environmental and electrical concerns in mind. The excuse of a new capacitor being used is totally unacceptable in ANY electronic application, without consent of BOTH contracted parties.

When a manufacturer has a problem with ANY component that is in one of their products, they should stand behind the component. Sony does not blame chip manufacturers, Chevy does not blame brake manufacturers, Pella does not blame timber companies. When your product is faulty, bite the bullet and find out why and make it good. That is what consumer avenues like this are all about. Manufacturers are not always very good at this, but in the end they know the value of good and bad press.

If a customer is having a problem with a product that is a misapplication then you may have a justification here. The insulting replies about reading the manual are unacceptable. If you think that a problem is from an ignored instruction, ask the question and do be petty and insult Adults make mistakes and we all can admit we do.

I loved the whole my $30,000 truck analogy. It may sound scary, but when people make major purchases they assume that the product will enable themself to make some money and build the reserve so that there will be a solid backup plan. No one has a spare house for it the roof collapses. Your logic isnt very good on this one. Assuming that a $9,000 produict would work is not too much to ask.

I am hoping this guy does not have to cut bait and call this whole thing a loss. I am sure some Miller manufacturers rep is blowing $9,000 every two months on booze and broads for clients. It wouldnt be a stretch to take a couple months off and either give this guy his money back or get one of the lazy reps out to work with the guy on another solution. The whole corporate world sickens me. Especially when you could think you have any ground for bashing a guy who has had so many problems with a piece of equipment. The line may be solid, but assemblers have bad days too. May be a case of something being wrong in the machine. Oh I am sorry, Miller is perfect. I am wondering how Miller wouldnt just eat this and close the book?

If someone expects this guy to sell it and take the hit, offer him $8500. I dont think you would. You are just blowing smoke.

I love my MXT. Dont get me wrong, but this guy is being dumped on.

[DDA52]

I

If someone expects this guy to sell it and take the hit, offer him $8500. I dont think you would. You are just blowing smoke.

, but this guy is being dumped on.

Wow, not a good way to make friends with your first post.

It is possible he is being dumped on. I am not all seeing. I can see that he is doing his fair share of dumping, however. That never helps.

About the unloading of unprofitable equipment, I am not blowing smoke, I have been there and have the paperwork to prove it. I had a Ford truck that Ford could not fix and would not fix. It did not qualify under the lemon law due to a technicality. I was told to live with it. I did for four months. I unloaded it at four months and one day. It cost $32,600+ off the lot and I could only get $21,500 for it four months later. I DID take a hit. It was necessary to stay in business. It was costing me in lost time and it ate diesel like there was no tomorrow. It had to go, and it did. Quick fast and in a hurry. I figure that as a $11,100 loss in four months, not including the lost time and other expenses. I also had a tractor go down in a similar fashion. It cost $6 approx in one months time. It would have cost even more had I not unloaded it asap. It is not that I am blowing smoke, or that I don't understand, I do because I have been there and done that. If you want to play with the big biys, you have to make big decisions. The bottom line doesn't care about anything but black ink. If you are in the red due to a mistake that has been recurring or just can't be fixed and you still persist in beating that horse, then you have no one but yourself to blame. That may sound harsh to some. That is not my intention. I am merely pointing out a fact in the business world. That particular world is harsh and uncaring.

Miller has built it's reputation on customer service. It is second to none. If they need to fix something, they will. Most of us here have seen it too many times. I myself have been a recipient of just such action a few times. From what I am hearing about the machine in question, most of the probs have been of a minor nature. No, they do not add to his bottom line, but they aren't hardly a major issue. He does not specify as to the latest problem, or if he did, I missed it. The previous ones that Andy pulled up sound like irritations, rather than catastrophic failures. Again, JMO. From the hours it has vs. its age, it is readily apparent that it doesn't see much action. Most two year old pipeliners have nearly 4k hours on them. Yes, it is a little young for a catastrophic failure. I'm still not sure if that has actually happened.

I'm not trying to rag on anyone. I am trying to point out a fact that was pointed out to me when I was starting out. That is what most of the poeple here will do, try to help. As Andy pointed out, this forum is not the place to get his problem solved. It can be a place for some tech support, weld help and the like. We all have had some questions answered here. Some do not want help. That is fine as long as they don't assault the rest of us with it. Present the differing opinion , then move on. If the board turns into a Miller freeforall, I don't think the powers that be will keep it up long. That would be unfortunate for everyone.
I'm steping down from my soapbox now.

Andy, if I am out of line, I apologize in advance.

[tackit]

Good post leon phelps. I think were beginning to see the difference between the old miller and the new ITW owned Miller. This small chicken crap of a problem would have been taken care of in a speedy honorable fashion if the old miller was still around.