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  • Tempted by the dark side, Engine Driven

    Well I am ready to purchase the new 302G Onan engine and talking to the distributor & he asks why I am so set on the Miller? I give him my standard Blue loyality speech and the quit enclosure ect. He asks why not the Ranger 305 G? My reply the duel power output generator/welding. He then replys that Lincoln has a much better engine driven arc with the "Lincoln Chopper Technolgy" and has a higher voltage rating.

    Well now the technical question to those that know what is what and why I should stick to my shacky decision.

    What is this supposed Chopper Technology?(MARKETiNG HYPE)
    How can a unit produce 300 amps @ 25 volts & the competition have 300 @ 29 volts, is there a advantage of higher voltage?
    Help me out of this pickle..
    Any guidance will be greatly appreciated

    Laurence

  • #2
    Originally posted by lramberson
    Well I am ready to purchase the new 302G Onan engine and talking to the distributor & he asks why I am so set on the Miller? I give him my standard Blue loyality speech and the quit enclosure ect. He asks why not the Ranger 305 G? My reply the duel power output generator/welding. He then replys that Lincoln has a much better engine driven arc with the "Lincoln Chopper Technolgy" and has a higher voltage rating.

    Well now the technical question to those that know what is what and why I should stick to my shacky decision.

    What is this supposed Chopper Technology?(MARKETiNG HYPE)
    How can a unit produce 300 amps @ 25 volts & the competition have 300 @ 29 volts, is there a advantage of higher voltage?
    Help me out of this pickle..
    Any guidance will be greatly appreciated

    Laurence

    All I know about the Ranger 305 is, the fully adjustable inductance is very nice. I ran my with a LN9 GMA feeder, Miller S32S feeder,esab mobilemaster feeder. Esab M-28 control with a ST -28 spoolgun. The Ln9/305 combo had a great mig arc, and the tig arc was really nice too. I would have to run a 302 in the short-arc to see if it is as good. I could of had a Miller for 301 for about the same as a Ranger, but I could not pass up the $3,150.00 I bought the ranger for. I really doubt the voltage matters that much on the 302. Shotgun on the Hobart board had both machines,and has ran some big wire on the trailblazer. Both machines will run big wire for the size of the machine, and that is one reason they sell lots of them.

    Comment


    • #3
      tryed and true to blue

      well that should be enough to keep you from switching.

      i dug this up as i think it might have an impact on this subject.as hopefully you will have your engin driven welder more than 10 years as this man did and is now paying for making the choice of red rather than blue.
      a500lbs lawn ornament is what he called it. anyhow it may or may not make any diferance to you but it is werth a few sec's to read it.

      http://www.millermotorsports.com/mbo...ead.php?t=1714
      thanks for the help
      ......or..........
      hope i helped
      sigpic
      feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. [email protected]
      summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
      JAMES

      Comment


      • #4
        lramberson,

        Take a look at Lincoln's web site. They have some good stuff. I demoed a ranger 250 amd 305. They are nice machines and both ran one of the best 6010 beads on 1" schd 40 pipe butt weld I have ever laid down! They are also very quiet which Miller has much improved on the new TB 302G. However, I bought the Trailblazer 301G over either of the Lincoln machines. Why? Gut feeling... Am I disappointed? Never!

        Comment


        • #5
          I have been waiting for you to chime in Hawk My Blue blood boils when marketing hype get involved in a very large personal purchase.

          Hawk (or anyone else) can you explain the voltage difference and it's implied advantage.
          I have convinced myself the Onan/Robin engine is a better product than the Kohler but I will be sacrificing the ability to run LP gas I would like the lpg option but oh well..

          I am to the point now I feel I need to hire a secret shopper and be suprised, but with this bunch I would receive a very used, new machine. If I ever did receive it

          Comment


          • #6
            lramberson

            I am to the point now I feel I need to hire a secret shopper and be suprised, but with this bunch I would receive a very used, new machine. If I ever did receive it (that goes to you Fun4Now)

            i'm not real shoure what you are getting at i was just trying to show you an example of parts availability that became a real problem for another member. i


            i take afence at you saying i would steel your $$$$ or buy you a crapy used welder and keep the rest i'll keep the responce i would make to you in person to my self as it would be inapropreate to print it here
            thanks for the help
            ......or..........
            hope i helped
            sigpic
            feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. [email protected]
            summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
            JAMES

            Comment


            • #7
              lramberson,

              A short and simple explanation is amp for amp a higher arc voltage "can" be associated with the ability to create a "wetter" puddle possibly providing more penetration. In the 300 amp ouput range you will never know the difference. Lincoln may want you to think so, but I doubt it. More voltage is not necessarily better.

              Welding arcs are more complex than a current/voltage ouput. Take a look at the volt/amp curve for both machines and compare. I think you will like what you see.

              I like the KIS motto of Keep It Simple.

              Comment


              • #8
                Hey guys keep it peaceful, we are all out for the same thing, knowledge. We remember things someone else did or said and sometimes relate to the point at hand. Point we are a group of mostly miller machine owners, for good reasons and some not so good reasons, counter-point ask a question about a lincoln machine here the answer is automaticly loaded to backfire.

                We all have our opinion, and it is just that ours, we share for free and you get what you paid for! Similar case Hawk likes lanthanated tungsten, I prefer ceriated but am learning to use lanthanated- why? because I wonder why Hawk likes it so well and it does do a good job. Will I ever like it better, maybe not but I gave a different opinion a chance and make an informed decision.

                This is my advice explore the options and take the models in question for a test drive, then you know what works for you, and you are the one making the decision{and writing the check}. Make informed decisions and try not to look for an unbiased opinion in a potentially biased arena and get upset by the response.

                Lets all play nice, OK

                Comment


                • #9
                  If you really want to find out how they both perform, just go rent both for a day and burn some rods. After that, get the one you like best........no matter what color it is. We will forgive you if it isn't BLUE. That might cost you a few pennies, but it would be well spent if you like what you get.
                  Don


                  '06 Trailblazer 302
                  '06 12RC feeder
                  Super S-32P feeder

                  HH210 & DP3035 spool gun
                  Esab Multimaster 260
                  Esab Heliarc 252 AC/DC

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I have 8 red and 2 blue, they are all good. The only one I have had any problem with has been the Red plaz. It made a great cut but the torch left a lot to be desired and it finally gave it up, crapped a card and it was over my head to fix it. 800 for a new one, I bought a Spec 2750 instead, actually I liked the cut better from the Lincoln,,, but when I went to buy a new one the dealer said,, I wouldnt want to sell you a red plaz, he carries both and thinks the blue is superior. I have 7 Lincoln welders. all have been pretty good, no major complaints. I think if my dealer had carried both when I bought some of them I may have looked at blue. The Spec is the first new machine I had bought in 10 yrs or so and now the local dealer has been bought and carries 3 brands. I am not super brand sensitive, if it makes sparks when its sposed to its fine by me. The arc quality of my little AC/DC tombstone, got it when it first came out is about as good as any machine I have used, at least as good as my skill as an operator will allow.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Sorry you took it wrong Fun, I was making a joke that you would get the machine and like it so much you would just burn a rod an see how it works. Just a little rod, say a 3/32 7018. Hum pretty smooth, let me try it on this little bumper I was thinking of making to fit my new tailgate (every new tailgate needs a new bumper ) Seem pretty sweet, The new dx just came in, Be kind a shame not to test the a/c performance while were set up an running . I hope you see my humor & poke Again sorry you took it wrong.
                      Now on to business.
                      Thanks Hawk that is exactly what I thougt, marketing hype. I was looking at the volt/amp curve and thougt the same, just need to be told to think what I was looking at(forest or trees) The light is now on.
                      The BoilerMaker cornered me last night and the discussion was on...
                      After all was said(and drank) the feeling he has is the performance in more than there. Apples to apples line graph to flip chart I am staying blue.
                      Thank for all your help in this desision
                      Happy Holidays To All

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hey guys,

                        I was down in NJ at Miller school last week and had a chance to run the new 302G and let me tell you i fell in love with the machine, it's just sweet. We looked at all angles of the 302G compared to the 305G from Red, and the instructor gave us the straight answer "If you want to talk about the look and penitration of the weld, the 302G holds up to the 305G, The chopper tech gives you a little softer arc on striking rod." But i always stay true to blue, customer service is great, you call their tech support and they treat you like a person not some Idiot like Red. Bad experiances with Red on this end. So stay with your 1st choice if i was you. Hope this helps a little. And PS. you pay for what you get.

                        BC
                        BC

                        Dynasty 200DX
                        Coolmate 3
                        MM210 w/3035 spoolgun
                        Cutmaster 101
                        LC1230 12" Metal Cutting Saw

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          BCarlucci,

                          I have posted more than once relating the good value of service and the good service Miller gives. I have also experienced some major headaches with Lincoln trying to get service and technical instructions.

                          Sberry,

                          I am partially brand sensitive to Miller, but in the past have owned several Lincoln machines. I believe in using what will do the best job within a price range. Outside that range it does not matter what machine is better because I cannot afford it anyway.

                          lramberson,

                          In addition to Miller and Lincoln I have had a few Thermal arc inverters and engine drives. I understand they have become much better with their equipment and customer service in the past few years. When it comes to standard welding machines for home, hobby, shop, and mobile use I generally prefer Miller. Outside this arena are specialty machine manufacturers for specific jobs. Since neither Miller nor Lincoln makes this stuff, one must look these other suppliers.

                          As I said before the Rangers have a super sweet arc on the 6010 rod, but not much difference overall other than being quieter. What I did not tell you is I was offered a substantial discount to get one of the Lincoln machines since they were special ordered for me to demo. Instead I bought the Trailblazer 301G. Before that I had a Bobcat, and before the BC a Blue Star 180. All these machines serverd me well.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            "I have had a few Thermal arc inverters and engine drives. I understand they have become much better with their equipment and customer service in the past few years."

                            That is about to change. Thermal within the last few months, has pretty much went through their ranks and chopped off anybody that makes over a certain amount of money. The bean counters have made two rounds of cuts. What does this mean out here? We now have the best welding rep working for esab!!!

                            Hawk, have you ran the red machine in the short or spray-arc? I sure the Miller is close but I doubt it would surpass the Lincoln. Spray-arc with big solid wire, the extra volts could come in handy.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hawk one last item..
                              Your feeling on Kohler or Onan/Robin?

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