tungsten grinders

[fun4now]

KB Fabrications

You have a great attitude James
thanks i try real hard at it.




i realy think you should post a review of your PIII as some here do do this for a living or may be looking to do so and knowing all there options up front is always good.
you can never have too much info in the noodle, ya never know when ya might need some of it

[ASKANDY]

I think I tig as much as the next guy... Probably more. I have one of the nice little $200 units that FUN showed that gets used mostly for shows along with chem sharp too. For the shop, I must confess, I use a dedicated $30 bench grinder with a fine grit Al-Ox wheel. The Chem sharp does take a little experience to get the point you want but it leaves a nice finish when you brush it off. As for the majority of our TIG hobby friends, a tungsten grinder would be a large expense for little use. I can also appreciate KB's need for one and if I had a buch of extra $$$ I'd like to have one but the fact is, I'm not welding on the space shuttle and everything I do is still of excellent quality.
My pa used to say...A good deal on an elephant isn't a good deal UNLESS you NEED an elephant!

Good luck

Andy

[HAWK]

To all who have posted:

I just cannot stay out of this one. I use both methods. The bench grinder is how I learned and is still used for large diameters (over 1/8"). The dedicated Piranha from Diamond Ground is my grinder of choice. Both grinders have their own specific purpose.

The dedicated specialty tungsten grinders are wonderful for speed, accuracy, precision, and dust containment. However, these features have a cost. The cost is strictly financial.

The bench grinders also do fine job. They are typically slower and less accurate providing fewer repeatable grinds. Also the grinding dust is not contained. However, the differences are negligible for most applications. With some practice the bench grinders are a very effective tungsten grinding tool.

Take a look at a few pictures and see what you think.

My bench grinder shown is a $15 flea market special with a $5 gray aluminum oxide wheel for rough cutting and a brownish fine grit diamond wheel used in the final polishing process.

[HAWK]

In defense of Diamond Ground's Piranha it includes the above mentioned features of the Sharpie and more including notching, cut off, adjustable taper, adjustable flat, replaceable wheel in 2 different finishes for a 20RA or higher polish finish, and the ability to utilize the entire diamond wheel from the center to the edge before swapping sides and eventually discarding.

On the polished finish note Diamond Ground does not currently offer a machine that will duplicate the high polish finish in their sample and sold products. Their products consist of the the finest quality alloys precision ground with CNC machines.

The Piranhas downside is cost, but in a business like Kevin's KB Fabricators or HAWK's Precision Welding Services or even A&W Welding (who likes my Piranha very much) the cost is quickly recoverable through better welds and increased productivity in creating the weldments rather than creating a nice shiny piece of tungsten alloy.

In defense of the bench grinder it is inexpensive, with "cheap" easy to find replaceable wheels. Even though I like my bench grinding set up it is only used outdoors (winter and summer) with a face mask and a welding helmet for lung and eye protection.

[drscotch]

Great stuff,

Hawk,

What grit Al-ox do you use for rough shaping? Where do you source the diamond wheel for your final finish.

Thanks
drscotch

[HAWK]

drscotch,

Thanks. The Al oxide wheel you see on the left is from Lowes. I do not know the grit #. It is not listed on the wheel. It is the most popular replacement wheel. It is the medium grade grit-not real course or fine-maybe #80.

It is just like the original wheel. Look at some bench grinders in the tool area and compare those to the replacement wheels. Sorry I cannot do any better this evening. I can check next time I am in Lowes-maybe a day or two.

The diamond wheel is marked HSR diamond wheel company. A friend had this one left over in his warehouse and let me experiment with it. I did a search for Diamond wheels and found this SITE . You might give them a call and see what one costs.

The diamond wheel really smooths the surface finish, but it is not necessary to have one. Some welding machines have better arc starts with a slightly rough finish on the tungsten.

I ran across the wheel and tried it as an experiment. I can tell you this: CUT YOUR TUNGSTEN ON THE ALUMINUM OXIDE WHEEL AND THEN POLISH WITH THE DIAMOND WHEEL. If you don't, then you will probably ruin such a fine polishing wheel. This one is not really made for hard cutting.

[fun4now]

confusing

well now i realy dont have a clue?? (nothing new there )

how important is it realy to have a good solid say 20% taper and a real consistantly ground tungsten?? i thought this was prity important. and as i will be ordering my first tung. preground i will know what they should look like but not shoure how close to that i will come with a bench grinder on the first or 101st try. i know i will only be using the dynasty 200DX and i dont know what ill be using it on.
so long and short of it all is this dose a beginer need a consistant tip?? how close to thet 20%taper and .020 flat do i realy need to be.
should i just get some chem-sharp and blunt the tip??

i would have to say this thred has just confused me more rather than help??

can any 1 realy clear it up ? just plain old strait forward shop talk. is a dedicated tungsten sharpener realy needed in a home shop or dose it just save time for you guys that have to do this for a living and time is $$$$$$$ (somthing i realy dont have any extra of)

[HAWK]

James,

Take a good look at the pre-ground tungsten and try to mimic it on a bench grinder. It is helpful to have a good consistent tip, but not a have to. I sharpened on a bench grinder for many years and made many welds without a tungsten grinder.

Technology is better now and such things as tungsten grinders are available. They are not a necessity! If worse comes to worse and bench grinding is not your thing, then try the Chem Sharp. It works well and is about $10-$15 a jar around here. That is pretty cheap for 400-500 sharpenings.

I am sorry to have been confusing. Sometimes I ramble on and on ...I was born a rambling man... ....doing the best I can...

There's that welding music again.

[fun4now]

Hawk

thank's
ill try the bench grinder i got 2 already. and get some chem sharp also (it's $8.00 here) see what moves me gota do somthing till i could aford the sharpie anyways.
i'll also compare how my sharpining feels compared to a pre-ground. i supose if i can realy feel the arc differance i'll know i cant sharpin and need a sharpie

[ASKANDY]

Fun,
Don't kill yourself over the degree of taper. If you are using a 3/32 tungsten and are welding 1/16th thick material, a longer taper is prefered. If you are welding thicker material, a less angle is needed. After you grind a few, you will get the hang of it quickly and be ably to repeat your grind angles close enough. Now some people like the precision angles and finish that the expensive tungsten grinders give. I get fine results from my grinder set up and unless I did light gauge SS all the time where the high polish finish helps with arc wander, I couldn't justify the cost. When I need a polish type finish, I just use the chem sharp.

Andy

[ASKANDY]

weld

hey hawk...that weld looks familiar

[HAWK]

Andy,

Good eyes

-ya think.

[drscotch]

drscotch,

Thanks. The Al oxide wheel you see on the left is from Lowes. I do not know the grit #. It is not listed on the wheel. It is the most popular replacement wheel. It is the medium grade grit-not real course or fine-maybe #80.

It is just like the original wheel. Look at some bench grinders in the tool area and compare those to the replacement wheels. Sorry I cannot do any better this evening. I can check next time I am in Lowes-maybe a day or two.

The diamond wheel is marked HSR diamond wheel company. A friend had this one left over in his warehouse and let me experiment with it. I did a search for Diamond wheels and found this SITE . You might give them a call and see what one costs.

The diamond wheel really smooths the surface finish, but it is not necessary to have one. Some welding machines have better arc starts with a slightly rough finish on the tungsten.

I ran across the wheel and tried it as an experiment. I can tell you this: CUT YOUR TUNGSTEN ON THE ALUMINUM OXIDE WHEEL AND THEN POLISH WITH THE DIAMOND WHEEL. If you don't, then you will probably ruin such a fine polishing wheel. This one is not really made for hard cutting.

Thanks Hawk, I like the idea of starting simple with my tig learning as much as possible. There are enough buttons on the 200DX to keep me busy without worrying about perfect tungsten prep.

[IBRAILN]

Well being new to the TIG world- I try to read these threads to learn as much as I can. So in my effort to learn more I am constantly asking stupid questions... and here come another one....--> Why sharpen the W anyways? I do MIG work at home but I have TIG'd at work a few times and I was never told to sharpen anything. Basically they handed me the torch and rod and told me to stick to pieces of AL together. (Which turned out pretty nice if I do say so myself) Is this something that can be explained in lame-mans terms, or is the consinsis that I should "take a class" My Dad just bought a used Miller Tig Unit (I don't know the exact model) so I'm ready to start practicing, the only problem is he lives about an hour away... Any info would be great. Take care, and Happy Holidays.
IBRAILN

[fun4now]

aluminum

if you were doing aluminum on a transformer based welder you would not sharpin the tung as it would need to be balled at the end witch it would do on its own.
the newer inverters dont use a balled tung. they need a point and a mixed tung. like 1.5% lanthanated for the dynasty series.

it depends on the welder but i would think it safe to say your father's older unit will take pure tung. balled on the end for aluminum. and pointed for steel. so it depends on the welder and the welded.

that probly made it werse for ya sorry