how much $ is Argon?

[klsm54]

Don't get mad at me.... ...but I will explain the Hazmat fee from a distributor, or more aptly, a corporate viewpoint.

Over the last 10 or 12 years, the costs associated with storing, transporting, filling, and selling, hazardous materials have increased draamatically. These costs are generally due to government and insurance company regulations.

Some things that add cost to a cylinder of gas are:
Increased insurance premiums for handling hazardous materials.
Commercial driver training.
Increased cylinder retest costs.
Cylinder disposal fees.
Mandatory drug testing for drivers.
Increased FDA regulations on medical gases.
Increased regulations on storage of gases.
Increased driver record keeping.
Hazmat information required to be given to ALL gas customers.
24 Hour Emergency Response Required
Added Mandatory employee training requirements
Increased Labeling requirements

and the list goes on, I just sold the stuff for twenty years, I didn't pay the bills.

Anyway, the big boys, AirGas, Praxair, BOC and so forth, started this Hazmat thinng as a way to recoup some of these costs. It started as a nominal fee, a couple bucks, and was usually only seen at major company locations. Well, then it started escalating, and the independants, reasonably so, started to charge it also. Now, it is a cash cow for the industry. Just an example, in 1997 when the independant that I worked for was bought out, we had ZERO delivery charges, and a $3.25 hazmat charge on delivered gases, and a $1.00 Hazmat on cylinders picked up at our stores. Those are per invoice, not cylinder. As of October 1st, we were charging, $12.00 hazmat and $5.50 delivery, per invoice again. That is an increase of over 500% in 7 years.

Have those costs increased that much over that time? Surprisingly, in some cases, it is not far from that. Have your wages increased that much in that period of time? Most likely not.

So the charge is not to move the cylinder 50 or 100 feet, it for all the costs associated with delivering bulk gases, and cylinders, all along the supply chain line. I am not defending the charges, just trying to let you see it from the other side. Hope it makes it a little clearer now....

[wrench3047]

with that "handling fee" since most suppliers don't fill the bottles on location you pay for the delivery back and forth between the plant that does fill it. We went to get our O/A and Nitrogen bottles filled, don't remember the cost of filling but they were our bottles and didn't get exchanged. took a week to get them back cause they had to send it to Atlanta about 5hrs away.

[ChrisV]

One I knew the mm210 was on its way, I bought outright a 275CF bottle of C25..out the door about $308...

[Sundown]

Bcarlucci and Sundown,

Prices do vary depending on the area. However, I doubt many people could get those prices. It is really not a fair comparison since I have known the dealer principal and family for many years. I have been loyal to this dealer and sent them business any time that I could. Sometimes you just find a good person that is willing to bend over backwards and help you out. It is not often and I don't know many, but the few I know are fantastic.

With that said the gas prices here are still considerably cheaper than most places. If either of you can make it to East TN sometime, shoot me an email and maybe we can hook up. I can show you my buddy's big shop-Still very impressive to me 20 years after I first set foot in it- and stop by my dealer if you want.

If not, then just keep on driving and enjoy the mountains of Eastern Tennessee!

Hawk,

You can be sure the next time I visit there I will let you know. Thanks for the invite

[chevynut101]

I don't mind that gas price so much, but I do have a problem with the $9 HazMat fee each time I fill up. Problem is that the other places in town arn't any cheaper and for the most part their service is not as good.

My "problem" too. When I go for a cylinder exchange I of course pay for the gas I'm getting and something like "hazardous material handling fee".
They take my empty across the loading dock from where I place it and bring a full one to the same place. A grand total distance of maybe 50 feet.
$8 for that?

[HAWK]

Bcarlucci and Sundown,

Prices do vary depending on the area. However, I doubt many people could get those prices. It is really not a fair comparison since I have known the dealer principal and family for many years. I have been loyal to this dealer and sent them business any time that I could. Sometimes you just find a good person that is willing to bend over backwards and help you out. It is not often and I don't know many, but the few I know are fantastic.

With that said the gas prices here are still considerably cheaper than most places. If either of you can make it to East TN sometime, shoot me an email and maybe we can hook up. I can show you my buddy's big shop-Still very impressive to me 20 years after I first set foot in it- and stop by my dealer if you want.

If not, then just keep on driving and enjoy the mountains of Eastern Tennessee!

[Sundown]

BCarlucci,

The 75/25 I mentioned is 75% Helium/25% Argon for GTAW. Are you thinking of a 75% Argon/25% CO2 for short arc GMAW maybe?

100% Helium and Helium/Argon mixes have always been higher than 100% Argon. I pay $12 for the 75 % Argon/ 25% CO2 mix and $15 for 92%Argon/8%CO2

Maybe I should drive to E. TN for my gas (I could visit my sister in Cooksville on the way) I just paid $29 for a 80CF refill of argon. And this is from a shop where I get everything over a long period of time. I don't mind that gas price so much, but I do have a problem with the $9 HazMat fee each time I fill up. Problem is that the other places in town arn't any cheaper and for the most part their service is not as good.

[BCarlucci]

Hawk,

All i have to say is Holy #%[email protected], those are some unbelieveable prices on your gases. So my assuming that pricing varies upon area is true.

BC

[HAWK]

BCarlucci,

The 75/25 I mentioned is 75% Helium/25% Argon for GTAW. Are you thinking of a 75% Argon/25% CO2 for short arc GMAW maybe?

100% Helium and Helium/Argon mixes have always been higher than 100% Argon. I pay $12 for the 75 % Argon/ 25% CO2 mix and $15 for 92%Argon/8%CO2

[BCarlucci]

I think it all depends on the area in which you live in and the size of the customer, and how well he knows his supplier. I give customers who are loyal to me a better deal then those are not loyal. Most of my customers are around Hawks price, the only thing i can say hawk is that you should be paying a little bit less for your 75/25, it should be more closer to the 22 bucks your paying for your straight AR, at least this is how we work, and actually the reason for this is that AR should cost more then 75/25 because AR costs more then 75/25. Just a thought for ya.

BC

[HAWK]

aphexafx,

I get by with a little help from my friends... There's that welding music thing again.

[aphexafx]

I live in TN and my dealer fills the 300 CF tank (336) for $22

Whoa...!

[HAWK]

Gary,

I live in TN and my dealer fills the 300 CF tank (336) for $22 on AR and $33 for 75HE/25Ar. I know those are really good deals, but it has been a long running dealer/customer/friend relationship. I really appreciate the extras my dealer does even though I don't buy much anymore other than gas or filler rod. Some of the specialty rods I buy out of town and my tungsten is Diamond Ground since I have used up my supply of Sylvania tungsten.

[GaryM]

Where I live its about $93 for the big 336 cf cylinder.

Gary

[drscotch]

Just bought a 122 cft bottle yesterday. Outright bottle purchase $270 CAD full of Argon. Refill is $65 CAD.

Around here a bottle rental is approx $70/year so purchase is the way to go if you're going to be welding for any period of time. The company I deal with sells you "a" bottle but you don't own the actual bottle you take away. In other words, when I need a refill I drop off the empty bottle, pay my $65 and walk away with a different full bottle. That way I don't have to worry about bottle and valve certification expiry and all that.

Hope this helps

Stefan