dyn 200 output on 120v ?

[HAWK]

Hey HAWK,

All of the weldors I've talked to...talk about how three phase power gives them a better performance (because the rectified three phase wave is steadier and averages higher). I've always wondered if this is something you can really notice. Is that what they feel, or are they just misinterpreting the stiffer current that three phase must provide?

And so, for inverters like the Dynasty, the input power is rectified and then pulsed at high frequency - thru the transformer - and then re-rectified, right? If I understand, then this re-rectified DC current is either sent out of the unit for DC welding, or polarity switched at whatever frequency for AC output, right? So, IF three phase power gives better performance on traditional machines BECAUSE of rectification, it doesn't matter to an inverter because it samples whatever power it needs and it doesn't matter what the input waveform looks like...right?

Wait I confused myself...no that makes sense. If anyone can parse my blabbering, I'd be curious to know the answer.

I hope I don't regret this question in the morning...beer? what?

Thanks!

YOU ARE RIGHT! THE DYNASTY INVERTERS DO NOT KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 1 AND 3 PHASE POWER AS FAR AS ARC QUALITY IS CONCERNED. The real difference with the inverters is the 3 phase power allows the rectifier bridge and input filter capacitors to work under much less load. This allows for the higher duty cycles per amperage output over 1 phase ratings on some machines. For example the DC (DUTY CYCLE) ratings are the same for the Dynasty 300 for 1 and 3 phase while the DC ratings are dramatically different for the ALT304 and XMT 304 between 1 and 3 phase. Even though these 2 inverters are listed as 225 amps at 60% on 1 phase they are capable of the full 400 amp output on 1 phase at approximately a 50% reduced DC. RE: since these machines are rated at 400 amps for 30% DC on 3 phase power you can still get 400 amps at 1.5 minutes on 1 phase. The rectifiers and filter caps are working much harder on 1 phase than 3 phase to achieve this output though.

[fun4now]

tailshaft56

by new tecnolegee we realy mean newly afordable to the masses.

5years ago i would never have imagined having a plasma cutter in my lil back yard shop. yet we can now have a plasma cutter for under $1000.00 same with the inverters it just wasent put to practical use in the publice although they did hit the market several years ago, gust not wide spred. however the dynasty series has several years of real world usage behind it giving miller plenty of time to work out the so called bugs, resulting in a well built reliable welder you can depend on.

[Tailshaft56]

Just read the inverter description from the Miller tig handbook and looks like you are exactly right. Since the frequency is much higher than 60 hertz the transformer can be much smaller and lighter. One other interesting sidenote is that inverter technology was first conceived in the 1940s but was not successfully marketed till the 1970s. So much for new unproven technology. LOL


Dennis

[aphexafx]

the Dynasty 200 does NOT need 3 phase power for any reason other than if you happen to have it.

Hey HAWK,

All of the weldors I've talked to...talk about how three phase power gives them a better performance (because the rectified three phase wave is steadier and averages higher). I've always wondered if this is something you can really notice. Is that what they feel, or are they just misinterpreting the stiffer current that three phase must provide?

And so, for inverters like the Dynasty, the input power is rectified and then pulsed at high frequency - thru the transformer - and then re-rectified, right? If I understand, then this re-rectified DC current is either sent out of the unit for DC welding, or polarity switched at whatever frequency for AC output, right? So, IF three phase power gives better performance on traditional machines BECAUSE of rectification, it doesn't matter to an inverter because it samples whatever power it needs and it doesn't matter what the input waveform looks like...right?

Wait I confused myself...no that makes sense. If anyone can parse my blabbering, I'd be curious to know the answer.

I hope I don't regret this question in the morning...beer? what?

Thanks!

[aphexafx]

the machine only got to 199 amps, so MILLER owes me 1 amp

Hehe! Thanks for letting us know your findings.

[Teeps]

I believe that revers hub drum, is made for a one way clutc, or diode.

So that steel for that transmission part, might be some kind of hardened alloy.

Not sure if that makes any difference in heat requirements, but I doubt that is standared mild steel.

Just my .02

Sheez 170+ amps on 120v circuit!!!!! I want one!!!!

[fun4now]

way cool

now thats 1 sweet lil blue box

thats why im still saving. well some day i too will get to play.

i already have the 245V ready and waiting.

put a meeter on it the other day just to see what i actualy have 122.5 volts and 245 volts that should do her just fine

[Moviestar]

Thanks s10! ...I wasn't doubting you...just like to hear diff opinons. Now that you done it thats a great help!

[Blown S-10]

ok guys, here is the scoop. your milage may vary.

on 120v 20a washer & gas dryer circuit. i turned it up to 200 amps, DC. i had my wife watch the meter. it does, as the manual says, have an ACTUAL output meter reading. i put the torch on that piece, the 1/4" part , just on the flat. and i just held it there. the meter said 179amp . not only that, but i burned a hole clean through the 1/4" . (this was just to get a reading, no welding was done.) if you ask me, thats impressive.

i then wired it up for 240v. i tried to get a full pentration weld on the piece in the above pics. but did not. i actually didn't notice much of a difference between the max on either the 120v & 240v. though i have picked up 20 amps. notice i said i only picked up 20 amps. the machine only got to 199 amps, so MILLER owes me 1 amp

[HAWK]

I really apreciate your help....but if some other people could confirm that a dx would hit 200a on phase 1 110 or 220v that would be great.

Andy or hawk perhaps?

Just want to make sure as it is a big purchase!

The Dynasty will provide full power of 200 welding amps AC or DC output when powered by standard household 220 VAC power. The machine will draw less than 30 amps at full output so a 30amp circuit will make an excellent supply circuit.

AS A SIDE NOTE (This has nothing ot do with your residential wiring-only as interesting aside to the thread.) THE DYNASTY WILL ACTUALLY ACHIEVE FULL WELDING OUTPUT OF 200 AMPS WITH AN INPUT POWER SUPPLY AS LITTLE AS 192 VAC AND IT HAS HAPPENED AS LOW AS 177 VAC. THIS IS A HANDY FEATURE IF YOU LIVE IN AN AREA WHERE THE POWER SUPPLY IS LOWER THAN NORMAL. IT IS ALSO A NICE FEATURE FOR IN PLANT USE PROVIDING 177 AND 208 VAC POWER.

You will get around 150amps welding output on 120VAC household power depending on your circuit's current capacty (15 amps or 20 amps). As aphexafx mentioned the Dynasty 200 does NOT need 3 phase power for any reason other than if you happen to have it.

[aphexafx]

I see the 200dx only goes up to 150a on phase 1 so I don't quiet know right now what I should do ...get a PT 185 or TA 185 because they both go to 180a on phase 1.

You're misreading the grids, or something, man. The Dynasty 200 series WILL put out 200A with single phase input (what you are calling phase 1). You don't need three phase input to get full functionality out of the D200's. You do, however, need enough POWER. You may be limited if you feed it with 120V. You will not be limited if you feed it with 230V, so long as that supply will give 30A or so to the 200 when you ramp it up to full output.

The best thing you can do is get yourself wired for 240V, 30A service and plug your Dynasty 200xx into that. You will have no problems.

Obviously you can wait for ANDY or HAWK to confirm this, but the answer is sitting right here.

[Moviestar]

I really apreciate your help....but if some other people could confirm that a dx would hit 200a on phase 1 110 or 220v that would be great.

Andy or hawk perhaps?

Just want to make sure as it is a big purchase!

[Blown S-10]

yeah James, that could be true, thats why i'm asking. it has a set amp, i don't know if it has an actual amp, didn't think to have the wife watch the meter. maybe i will try it again.

naw, i can wire that myself, with the help from here. maybe i will go get the parts today. but my washer is broken , so i have to fix (hopefully) that first.

if you could make it over here i would be glad to let ya play with it

here is what i did. some junk trans parts. one is 1/4" (not including the gear teeth) by 1 1/2", the other is 1/2" x 3/4". there was already a bevel on the first parts.
- i to fully penetrate, just sat in one spot with the torch. but i couldn't see anywhere that it did. i will save this piece to try with 240v. i wonder how well it would do in the stick mod , hmmm.

[fun4now]

Blown S-10

i turned it up to 170amp, and it still worked fine. but i though, maybe it just goes to 150a on 120v no matter how high the dial is turned.

if it said you were getting 170 then you were. it has a actual amp and a set amp dosent it? seems i have here of it exceeding the 150A on 110 befor and he was watching the actual amps.could be it is not recomended to go over 150A on 110V as it will drasticly reduce your duty cycle.

i think ya need to spend a few $100 and get an electrician in there to get ya some 220V power sounds like you are dying to try that babby out with some real juce.

ummmm you could swing by my place to try it out on 245V if ya want humm i get to play too right

[Blown S-10]

this is what i have been told on this forum, by the "PROS".

on DC, for steel. it is a 200 amp machine.
on AC, for aluminum, because of its advanced design, its closer to 250 amps.
hard to believe, but those guys are good. so i go with what they have to say. i would be a fool to say they are wrong.