engine drive and a dynasty

[dyn88]

today i called miller tech. I asked the tech if my bobcat would run a dynasty 200 alright. his reply was "we do not recomend using the dynasty off any engine drives" I asked if it would void any waranties, and his reply was once again the same. Im at an impass now, I was seriosly considering purchasing the dynasty as some of you may know from my previos threads, but now im not sure. I know of at least one here who has done this with no problems. Im interested in any input any of you may have. Id also like to hear what ANDY has to coment about this.

[Paul Seaman]

I know HAWK ran his 200DX off a Trailblazer301g.

[HAWK]

dyn88,

I ran my D200DX from my Trailblazer 301G for a year and welded a lot of aluminum out on the road. I had one problem with the Dynasty and it was not attributed to the engine drive power. My machine had a failure of the polarity switching IGBTs. According to Miller, these were faulty components and had been giving minor problems on my machine until their abrupt failure. This was not an across the board failure issue.

When I sold my D200DX I informed its potential owner of the situation and the exact warranty repair work. He welded with the machine and purchased later that same day. The Dynasty is still running strong.

Before you scrub the idea get Andy's response. Also call 920-735-4505 and press 4. Then ask for Dave Fisher in TIG applications. Dave is a very knowledgeable engineer and will shoot straight. He has never steered me wrong. You might talk to the guys in engine drive apps as well.

[aphexafx]

I think what they are ~worried~ about is the "dirty" power that portable generators produce and how this might affect the inverter circuitry. As you might know, dirty power is a combination of cycle distortion (the expected 60Hz sine not a clean sine, i.e. noise) and soft voltage response (the voltage drops and is slow to recover, or rises and is slow to recover, when power is demanded suddenly or released suddenly). Portable generators usually exhibit both of these problems.

Who knows the long term effects of running the Dynasty high amperage inverter on this kind of power source? Apparently they don't know, or they know it's not good. Since the tech gave and dryly repeated a robotic and generic answer, I would assume that they don't know.

Anyhow, they don't want to repair all of these inverters in the future, which is understandable, and so they will probably just tell you to not to do it.

HAWK used his Dynasty this way, so obviously it's going to work. Unfortunately, you'll have to look into it and see what you think, and then go with your own educated estimation, since most people probably won't want to tell you that it's OK and then have your Dynasty fry.

Like, I want to say it's probably OK and I'm sick of everyone nitpicking and being over protective about everything these days...but then your Dynasty might burst into flames and burn your house down, and then I'd feel really bad.


Wouldn't the Dynasty's auto-line and other primary voltage conditioning help out significantly, though?

[Mike W]

I think it depends on the generator. I have an old simple Onan that doesn't have any electronic regulation. I keep forgetting to check the distortion of the 60 hz, but I would trust it to run about anything.

[dyn88]

I heard somewhere and cant find where now, but, that millers newer generaters have an advaced regulator circutry and the actual voltage supplied by the stator is much higher than at the plug. Allowing the output to be more steady and controllable. Im thinking that this was a rumor since ive never seen a thread on it here.

[HAWK]

dyn88,

Not sure on that. However, I logged the 240 VAC output on my Trailblazer for 2 hours at 5 minute intervals with a Fluke with automatic recording capability and extrapolated the data to a graphical representation via their software. The test was performed with a normal workload in mind. I ran 120VAC power tools including variable load devices such as saws and grinders ; welded in the SMAW ; GMAW with the 12 RC and the XR feeders ; and scratch start TIG modes. The output varied less than two (2) volts AC from 249.5 VAC through 251.2 VAC. That is not only considerably better than I expected, but is better than many utility supplied power sources. I did not measure how "clean" the power was, but can confirm it is a very stable and consistent output.

[Steved]

How about this for an idea depending on the power requirements that you have and the time/money you are willing to invest.

As it is not possible to 'store' AC power in capacitors, your only other option would be to have a bank of batteries acting as your reservoir, charge the batteries with the genset and a smart charger, and run the machine off of a HIGH QUALITY sine wave inverter.

Just a thought. This totally depends on your particular application, current requirements and spare change as larger inverters, batteries, smart lead-acid chargers are quite expensive.

It would reduce the noise and power drooping/recovery as compared to a genset.

Just a thought.

[GaryM]

That would take a truck to move all the batteries alone. Dont think it would work to good.

Gary

[dyn88]

that would work awsome but I would need to spend the equivalent of a yearly salary on the electronics and hardware let alone the utility vehicle to haul that stuff around. Good idea though.

[ASKANDY]

I have also run the Dynasty off an engine drive. It was a Trailblazer. The Bobcat has a bit more dirty power where as the Trailblazer is quite smooth and can handle more sensative electronic equipment. I even run my whole house off the Trailblazer.
Because we can't determine the quality of power from all the different generators on the market, so we take the safe road. There is nothing in the warranty statement or owners manual that says you can't run this off a generator. I wouldn't run it off the Bobcat. If you can get the O-scope traces off other generators or if they are rated for sensative electronics, go for it.

Good luck.

Andy

[lramberson]

I will be running my DX 200 from my soon to be acquisition, the 302G. Just have not finalized the decision on the motor, leaning toward the Kohler due too the ability to be converted to LP gas.
The feeling and accumulated information from Miller web site, Dealer & Company rep, the power supplied from the 302 is very clean and spike free & should be a no brainer. Now this single thread totally destroys my confidence in my plan of action & purchase
So now to the facts I have received:
1) Two-Generator System
Miller offers the ONLY two-generator system, one for welding and one for generating power - meaning no interaction between tools and the welding arc. This system is the most efficient - producing the best quality arc and the strongest generator power while welding. (Copied from Miller website)
2) Ten-degree skewed-rotor design optimizes generator performance for 10,000 watts of smoother power –notspike power found in other brands.
(Copied from BR website.) I have a question on this that I wll address with a company rep, because miller states this is in the bobcat series & never addresses this in the trailblazer line.
3) 10,000 watts of the cleanest, truly useable generator power that is Accu-Rated™, not inflated.
Delivers peak power for a minimum of 30 seconds for maximum generator loads (like plasma cutting,
Millermatics and motor starting, copied from BR website).
I am going to directly contact Miller Factory before purchase & call Dave Fisher in TIG applications. Thanks Hawk for his name.

[lramberson]

Did a little more research and found this thread of info on Millers engine driven website. "While many competitive generators boast 10,000 watts of starting power, according to Miller Electric product manager, John Leisner, that power generally refers to a short-duration peak or surge power that is not strong enough to start most motors or equipment. Miller's Accu-Rated power, however, is guaranteed to deliver 10,000 watts of useable peak power for a minimum of 30 seconds. That power is ideal for maximum generator loads such as motor starting, plasma cutting and running Millermatic MIG welders. The Accu-Rated peak power is also well suited for running inverter power sources such as the CST™ 250, Dynasty™ 200 or the Maxstar® series among others says Leisner.".
Now I believe this has finalized my decision.
I have to now get the forums feelings on the Kohler motor.

[dyn88]

theres my answer eureka.

[aphexafx]

"...The Accu-Rated peak power is also well suited for running inverter power sources such as the CST™ 250, Dynasty™ 200 or the Maxstar® series among others says Leisner."

Well, there you go.