200 DX opinion and idea needed for Diamond Back Torch set

[Pakman]

First let me say I've tried the Lincoln and the Esab tigs and nothing comes close to my 200 DX, the biggest shocker is aluminum welding, no pun intended, night and day comparison.
At my local comunity college they have a bunch of Esab units and most of the Tig machines are equiped with a what they are calling a diffuser type cup and internals. This allows the tungstun to protrude quite a bit more giving the operator more visual room. Is this setup available for the Diamond back torches? If so who has them and how much? AND does anyone have any input on these cup setups.
Thanks,
Jeff

[aphexafx]

Yes, you are talking about what most people call a "gas lense" - a device that steadies and evenly spreads out a flow of gas - it basically removes turbulence. You can use any gas lense designed for your series of torch (17, 26, etc.) and it need not be from Miller or Diamond Back specifically, you can use a weldcraft lense, for instance, just as long as it's designed to fit your torch series. Same with the special gas cups that these utilize, which are larger in diameter than regualr cups and usually taper to the opening. The lense itself replaces the collet body on your torch.

Here's some online info for you:

Gas Lense @ weldingdepot.com

Gas Lense Cup @ weldingdepot.com

GTAW Equipment, GYAW Handbook, from Miller

and just in case you want the rest of the Handbook


Now, they are made out of fine mesh screens and you can damage them if you aren't careful and know what you're doing. I'm surprised that your CC is using them generally, because they are special devices designed for when normal setups won't work, and I think preliminary training should be done with a normal setup, but whatever.

Good luck!

[HAWK]

Pakman,

Welcome to the forum. Aphexafx gave you some good reference sites. I have attached a couple of files showing 2 styles of lenses. The Pyrex Lens came from CK Worldwide The other gas lens could have been one of the above sites I really don't remember.

Both type lenses have their place, but I agree you should learn with the standard cup and collet set up.

[DEA]

Speaking of gas lenses!
Can the Pyrex cup be used with any gas lens?
I also read somewhere that gas lenses weren't recomemded with aluminum welding.something about cloging the screen!
Thanks
Doug

[HAWK]

The Pyrex cup is packaged in a kit with the proper sized wire screen, insulators, and collet assembly. It will fit any torch as along as you specify the torch type when ordering: #12, #18, #20, #17, etc. The Pyrex lens kit is different than the gas lens assembly. I have not had any problems with the Pyrex cups or gas lenses with aluminum. I guess if you contaminated the tungsten in the weld, inherent spatter would clog the gas lens screens.

[BCarlucci]

Hey guys,

I have one customer who is currently doing almost all the welding for a company out of Monroe CT, that is manufactoring the replacement windows on all the US Navy ships and. Alum, S/S and Bronze, he uses Gas Lenses on all of his setups and he very rarely goes through gas lenses, even with the new guy he just hired who doesn't really know how to weld (just out of welding school). So for messing up the gas lens the only way i can think is if you touch the tungsten with the filler metal and it some how damages the mesh, but even so, the cost of a gas lens isn't to great at all and even the cups aren't expensive. Good luck guys.

BC

[Pakman]

bone head question now

Yes, you are talking about what most people call a "gas lense" - a device that steadies and evenly spreads out a flow of gas - it basically removes turbulence. You can use any gas lense designed for your series of torch (17, 26, etc.) and it need not be from Miller or Diamond Back specifically, you can use a weldcraft lense, for instance, just as long as it's designed to fit your torch series. Same with the special gas cups that these utilize, which are larger in diameter than regualr cups and usually taper to the opening. The lense itself replaces the collet body on your torch.

Here's some online info for you:

Gas Lense @ weldingdepot.com

Gas Lense Cup @ weldingdepot.com

GTAW Equipment, GYAW Handbook, from Miller

and just in case you want the rest of the Handbook


Now, they are made out of fine mesh screens and you can damage them if you aren't careful and know what you're doing. I'm surprised that your CC is using them generally, because they are special devices designed for when normal setups won't work, and I think preliminary training should be done with a normal setup, but whatever.

Good luck!

Would love to buy some stuff but I am not sure of what sizes I need for the Diamondback torch. I dont see any numbers on Torch and equipment. The little box of torch ends has the numbers AK-2 and #17 on it. Am I bonehead or what?

[aphexafx]

No, man - there are lots of numbers and it can be confusing. Your accessory kit (AK) indicates that you have a 17 series torch which is an air cooled torch rated for 150A. It's probably the most common air cooled torch size, so it will be easy for you to find lenses and cups and such for it.

For reference, check out this link: weldingdirect/gaslenses

Since you have a 17 series torch, you will want to get any of the 45Vxxx lenses that will fit it: 45V24 through 45V29 lenses. (There are the regular lenses and then there are the large diameter lenses as well). Then look to what cups the lenses you buy will require, generally it looks like 54N cups (there is a whole range of them) for the 45V lenses. Lastly, make sure you have the correct teflon washer (insulator) for the front of your torch, so that the cup seats properly. Looks like the 54N01 insulator for the regular lenses on a 17 torch, and the 54N63 insulator for the large diameter lenses on a 17 torch.

So to get started, you could order a 45V25 lens to hold a 3/32" tungsten in a 17 series torch. Order a 54N16 #6 cup, or a 45N15 #7 cup, to go along with it (both pink alumina, I don't know where to get the pyrex cups). And, then buy a 54N01 insulator (sometimes called a gasket) to complete the package.

I'm fairly certain that that is all correct, but perhaps someone here more seasoned than myself could verify this for you.

Oh ya, my first post would indicate otherwise, but I agree with BCarlucci and urge you to get at least a simple set of lenses and lens cups to have around in case you need them, and then to experiment with them so you know how they will behave. They aren't that expensive or anything - I was just guessing that you were new to TIG welding though (maybe wrong?) and I thought you should concentrate on using a normal setup AT FIRST. If you do dip your tungsten and you do mess up the lens, well there goes $5, you know? I've never ruined one either, but I didn't use a lens until I was good with the normal setup. Anyway, generally, a normal torch setup will work 90% of the time. But, you are of course welcome to dig right into the lenses and see what you can do!

BTW, there should be some sort of indicator molded into the rubber neck of your torch, I think. I can't remember if DB torches have this, and my DB is not with me... Anyhow there should be some sort of documentation indicating the torch series you have - if not post how you got the torch (contractor's kit, etc.) and give the related numbers and we can help you identify it.

Cheers, hope this helps!

[Terence638]

While we are on this subject and not to jump on another thread but when I Al. weld annodized material my ceramic cup starts to distort after a few welds I dont know if this is because of the gas flow at about20cfm or the tungston 3/32 or the heat 150 amps on 1" schd 40 pipe. i dont know why the cup starts to disort and it realy turns bright cherry .
But on the subject about the lenses, Ive used them with my work but i find the cups a little to bulky to get around a 1" or 1-1/4" pipe weld..
Any help with the problem on my ceramic cups would be helpful. Would the pyrex cup take more heat?
Terence

[Blown S-10]

i found the gas lense to be more durable than i thought they would be. but then i don't foul the tungston as much as i did when i first started. i now have a set for aluminum only, and steel only, and backups.

[Pakman]

Cheers, hope this helps!

Wow! yea this should do it. This is just one of those things that I'd like to have just in case. thank you for all your help. Maybe I'll meet some of you guys at the PRI show next week.