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  • #16
    "The maxstar 150 is under powered and about .90" will be its steady diet for working long periods."

    If one is just welding up a few frames, it isn't going to be anything like continuous, it would be a few minutes this week, and a few minutes the next so to speak. How much difference would that make towards the .120 tube welding, with some welds of .120 to .5, and .25? Also, I am assuming that if I did go the 150 route, which isn't my plan, that I could use the same torch pedal, regulator etc... with a DX, if I ever needed to go there. However, if that isn't true, then it's just one further nail in the coffin of the 150.

    I must confess the broken 200 DX thread is having an effect on me. A 3 year warrantee wouldn't cover the payback period on a hobbie welder, so I would have to be certain that the thing would hold up.

    Comment


    • #17
      The Maxstar 150 uses a 6 pin configuration for its accessories unlike the 14 pin connector of the Dynasty. I think .120 frames will be pushing the 150 as hard as it wants to go. The .120 to 1/4 and 1/2 just won't happen with this unit from what I have seen.

      Comment


      • #18
        dont count out the dyn200DX

        the broken dyn.200 is only the 2nd 1 i have seen come up with problems and bolth had the same problem code and bolth were being used rong. it has been stated time and time again that you need to read the manual on this welder. too many people that know how to weld pick up the dyn. and treat it like a transformer based welder, it is not the same and some welding habits need to change to use it. balling the pure tungsten is a definet no no as it will put undue amounts of strain on the welder. bolth of the dyn. problems had this same problem and bolth were using pure tungsten.i am also a hobiest and have a real hard time justifying the $$$ involved in the dyn.200DX but with a lot of reserch and time to concider it i have come to decide it is the right welder for me and yes i have watched real closely for any -feedback on it , and the only problems i have seen have come from improper use and i dont think it is right to blame the dyn.200 for it's owners misuse.
        i believe that used properly it will work flawlesly, i will be reading my owners book cover to cover befor atempting to use it. it is new tecnoligy and needs to be treated as such.

        if you ran a unledded car on ledded gas would you say the car was bad because it broke?
        thanks for the help
        ......or..........
        hope i helped
        sigpic
        feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. [email protected]
        summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
        JAMES

        Comment


        • #19
          I understand your issues with what to buy. Awhile back I was walking that same road.

          One sound piece of advice I will offer is do not underbuy capacity...you will regret it every time. Welding copper is a tough act because of its thermal conductivity so be sure you have sufficient power.

          If you have the money available, I would buy the 200DX for the features that you have mentioned that you need. The sticky point is what do you do when the warranty runs out. The "Broken 200DX = $2000" thread highlights what can and will happen to Dynasty (and other inverter based) machines as they continue to age...everything breaks down sooner or latter and whoever is holding the machine at that moment without a warranty will pay the piper. The immediate answer to that problem for you is to plan on selling the Dynasty before the three year warranty runs out. Welders do hold their value so as long as you budget for a turnover every few years, you will reap the benefits of the 200DX and its warranty while not exposing yourself to a killer of a repair bill.

          Now in a typical case of "do as I say and not as I do" ;<), I opted for the 180SD in my recent purchase because I was willing to trade off portability for a more mature technology which hopefully will cover me when the warranty ends. In my sporadic usage as a hobbyist, I could not justify a Dynasty with its larger initial cash outlay (and higher repair cost?) that would sit untouched for a large amount of time. I also tend to keep my tools for longer periods of time so "after the warranty runs out" costs were a factor. If Miller would have had an extended warranty program in place, I would likely have a Dynastynow instead of the 180SD because of the more features of the 200DX. As it is, I too may end up selling my 180SD in the future and trade up to a Dynasty (or the Lincoln equivalent) if my needs and usage pattern change. Considering how the inverter machines are manufactured and assembled, I do consider that component reliability will improve while the repair labor cost will remain the same or go up. Meanwhile as the inverter technology continues to mature, hopefully companies will extend the warranty period on future inverter based welders. Otherwise most of us will be buying new welders every couple of years in response to the economic reality of repairing out of warranty inverter based welders.

          Good luck with your decision and let us know how it turns out,

          TMT

          Comment


          • #20
            3 years of work = a life time

            you seem to have left out a big part of the picture here.
            if you use the thred about the malfunctioning 200DX as a worst case senareo guide then lets lake a closer look.
            that DX is in a welding shop 1 would have to assume it see's 20 to 30hrs. of use a week. it has been used and abused (pure tung) for 5 years now.thats between 3200hrs and 4800hrs.
            as a hobbiest my dyn.200 will most likle see less then 5hrs a week averaged out over the year (probly less if you consider the time i dont spend in the shop) thats 160hrs a year . at that rate it would last me (if i abuse it) between 20 to 30 years. i think i will get my $$$ werth out of it . and as i intend to use it as it was intended (1.5% lanthanated tung.) i would expect it to perform even longer than that.
            it realy is not fair to judge a welder line by the 1 or 2 that were used improperly. i think you may have sold yourself short by passing on the dynasty.
            HAWK who used his regulaly speeks highly of it. he i'm shoure used it as it was intended.

            as it has been stresed over and over here on this site you MUST read the manual or risk just such a thing as has been seen.Just because you can TIG weld dose not mean all welders are the same. thouse that got a dynasty got it for it's new tec. and thouse that failed to treat it as such have seen the errer of there doing so.
            dont blame the dynasty for what has been done to it by thouse that failed to treat it properly.

            i for 1 have no fear of investing my verry hard to come by $$$ in this welder as it has gotten nothing but praise by thouse that use it as it was intended.
            thanks for the help
            ......or..........
            hope i helped
            sigpic
            feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. [email protected]
            summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
            JAMES

            Comment


            • #21
              James,

              I only use lanthanated tungsten in my Dynasty 200DX with the exception of .010" and .020". So far I have only found these tiny tungstens in thoriated. At 1-10 amps I am not concerned about current carrying capacity.
              I tried ceriated, but was disappointed with the results compared to the lanthanated tungsten. My machine has been treated very well. I only recently sold it because I have slowed way down on the mobile work and the D300DX has the shop work covered. There are only a couple of us at my shop and I am the only TIGGER. I hope Pooh does not mind.

              Comment


              • #22
                I think you may have misunderstood my comments.

                I too think the Dyansty series has great promise. If the 200DX would have had a longer warranty, I would likely have one despite the higher initial cost (can't have too many tools). In my situation as a hobbyist, my sporadic usage of the welder would have been light and seldom.

                In electronics, the most likely time for a component failure to occur if the machine is used within normal conditions is in the early and late portion of its lifespan. In a hobbyist environment with light usage, one could easily not get pass the infant mortality stage before the three year warranty was over. In other words, a lightly used tool is as likely to fail as a heavily used tool. Miller with their life cycle testing would know what those numbers are but will likely not share them with us since they represent a significant proprietory knowledge.

                By buying and using the 180SD at this time, I can still TIG and if all goes well, I will be in the market for an inverter based welder. I hesitate to be an early adopter in any product or technology where I don't have an urgent need for its benefit. Since any welder I buy will be for hobby and light industrial use, I tend to buy good but mature technology so I don't have to rely only on my good looks when the factory warranty runs out..

                As I said earlier, sooner or later everything breaks. The repair cost at that time is what will determine whether we see used inverters holding their value after their warranties run out. However the saga of the "broken welder" turns out, the quote of ~$2000 for some capacitors/boards in the 200DX tells me that this is an issue to watch. As I do before I buy a new car, when I am in the market for an inverter based welder I will visit my local repair depot and review the parts costs for the welder in question. If they are excessive, I will not be buying that welder no matter how nice it is. Leasing or renting it will then be the route I take.

                TMT



                Originally posted by fun4now
                you seem to have left out a big part of the picture here.
                if you use the thred about the malfunctioning 200DX as a worst case senareo guide then lets lake a closer look.
                that DX is in a welding shop 1 would have to assume it see's 20 to 30hrs. of use a week. it has been used and abused (pure tung) for 5 years now.thats between 3200hrs and 4800hrs.
                as a hobbiest my dyn.200 will most likle see less then 5hrs a week averaged out over the year (probly less if you consider the time i dont spend in the shop) thats 160hrs a year . at that rate it would last me (if i abuse it) between 20 to 30 years. i think i will get my $$$ werth out of it . and as i intend to use it as it was intended (1.5% lanthanated tung.) i would expect it to perform even longer than that.
                it realy is not fair to judge a welder line by the 1 or 2 that were used improperly. i think you may have sold yourself short by passing on the dynasty.
                HAWK who used his regulaly speeks highly of it. he i'm shoure used it as it was intended.

                as it has been stresed over and over here on this site you MUST read the manual or risk just such a thing as has been seen.Just because you can TIG weld dose not mean all welders are the same. thouse that got a dynasty got it for it's new tec. and thouse that failed to treat it as such have seen the errer of there doing so.
                dont blame the dynasty for what has been done to it by thouse that failed to treat it properly.

                i for 1 have no fear of investing my verry hard to come by $$$ in this welder as it has gotten nothing but praise by thouse that use it as it was intended.

                Comment


                • #23
                  It's interesting (to me only probably) that as I scan the memory banks for recent electronic purchases, I can think of quite a few that have packed it in without a lot of use, notwithstanding very careful treatment. This eror message thing caught my eye because of a laser range finder that just started displaying eror messages, and while I had owned it for a while, it was within it's first battery. I know it's apples and oranges, but I would have to have some better sense of the pattern of wear for these things, how fluky they are about shop conditions (not always heated). One thing that was mentioend about the Lincoln 185 was that it has internal electical components sealled in plastic against moisture. Anyway, it's tempting to get a DX because it so meets my needs other than what it costs. I'll have to think it over. Thanks for a lot of thought provoking responses.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Dynasty

                    One consideration you should make is the power consumption. I have a SD180 at work and it pulls almost 60 amps of 220VAC wide open. The Dynasty and Maxstar use a little less amperage. Dynasty pulls 16 amps of single phase 220 for 150amp output.

                    I choose the Dyansty SD for my home shop due to lower amp draw and options. SD 180 is a great machine for the price but it's a power hog.

                    I bought my SD from Cyberweld.com. If you can wait a few days you'll save a few hundred bucks.

                    Tom
                    MM135
                    Dynasty SD
                    Multiple Miller Coffee Cups
                    Tom
                    Dynasty SD
                    Millermatic 130

                    "Too Bad Those Who Know It All Can't Do it All"

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      That's certainly a factor in my purchase. I have just 60 amps coming into my shop, and while I don't really need to run anything else other than a lightbulb at the same time, I might still be handicapping the upper end of what I can do, when I probably need all of the power I can get.

                      With TIG welders how much heavier material can you weld if you switch to the stick side of the machine. I wouldn't want to weld say the frame tubing with the stick, or I might as well not bother with TIG at all, but possibly either the brackets, or general fixtures. However, I am assuming that the stick will do heavier material, which may not be true.

                      I should have mentioned relative to the brackets that they need to be welded from the top and bottom. not just from one side. So for instance the motor mount is notched to fit into the .120 tube, then welded at teh top and bottom.

                      From the look of it, the Dynasty problems in the other thread have been solved.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Reliability

                        I think we may be looking for ghosts where there are none. Let me assure you that Miller inverters have been around since the late '80s. These machine go through the same life cycle testing and reliability testing as all of our other machines and carry the same 3 yr warranty. The technology is sound and failure rates are inline with other product we produce. The machine has sealed pcbs and a wind tunnel design that when the fan turns on, it blows through a tunnel of heat sinks, not over sensitive electronic parts.

                        I too am like most of you, I will buy what works and the Dynasty works for me

                        Take care.

                        Andy

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          dynasty for shoure

                          the input power was a mager deciding factor for me and look's like it should be a mager factor in your choice as well. with a max input draw of under 30Amps it realy is the best suited for your 60A service.
                          i too am the only one in my shop most of the time so will be using little else while welding. keeping that in mind you have to think about what else will be going and how they will add up faster than you think.
                          4 floresent light fixtures with 2 bulbs each. most of the time i will be using my stereo,atleast 1 fan sometimes 2 to keep air quality good or to move the heated air from my portable propain heater. at the moment my computer is dead but will get replaced sooner or later and will be on.
                          in my case the plasma cutter may be on even though not being used at the moment,bench grinder for last minet fitup.
                          all thease lil things start to add up and told me that although 60A to run the syncro180 might be doable it was not verry likely that i would be able to use it to it's fullest.(needing 54A )
                          wheras i could get 200A output from the Dyn. with only 30A input leaving me plenty of breathing space to alow for anything else. the extra $$ spent (about to be spent in my case) was a hard decision but the reality of it is, it realy is my only feasable option as power to my shop is limited . and the addition of a large 220V 7HP air compresser realy sealed the deal.
                          thanks for the help
                          ......or..........
                          hope i helped
                          sigpic
                          feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. [email protected]
                          summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
                          JAMES

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            If one wants TIG capability in an amperage limited shop, an inverter based welder is usually the way to go. As was pointed out, the minute that you add more than one heavy user of power (compressor/welder) or if you and someone else try to use multiple heavy amperage tools you run into the amperage ceiling of your service panel.

                            In my case I have a 100AMP service into a detached shop building. I have to plan my purchases carefully to make sure that I stay within the anperage budget. In my case, I could swing a 180SD while a 250 Sycrowave would have been a problem without a MAJOR expense to upgrade my home service to a 400AMP capability.

                            TMT

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              You are not alone with an interest in this....there are engineers whose only focus in life is to determine the electronic lifespan of products. You can bet that Miller/Hobart has more than a couple of them.

                              This is a broad subject but for the guy holding a new welder to his chest with giddy delight, there are a few rules of thumb that can work to his favor to minimize the risk of failures that would crush the joys of getting that NEW welder.

                              Remember, electronics HATE heat. While there is a point at which high temperature will kill electronics, the cooler you keep the welder the better the electronics will be. The recommendation to keep the welder clean INSIDE and OUT is one of the most important things an user can do. If the welder cannot get a consistent cooling airflow, the electronics get hotter and hotter which shortens their overall lifespan. If it is a HOT day, put the welder in the shade and you will be rewarded with a longer lifespan. Colder temperatures in general do not hurt electronics. An exception I have seen is if you are welding in such a cold environment that the fan will not turn because of its lubrication being too cold, then the electronics aren't cooled properly and they fail.

                              Moisture that condenses within the welder's case can get you in BIG TROUBLE. Bear in mind that if you are welding in a moist environment such as a foggy day, your welder's fan is sucking that moisture into and through the welder. If the moisture condenses in the welder, you are just asking for problems.

                              As for infant mortality of electronics if you let a device run continuously for 48-72 hours, you will have significantly reduced the possibility of early failure occurring later in its usage. That means all the electronics. For a multipurpose machine such as a 180SD, I would think that you would have to run the machine 48-72 hours in each mode to burn in the electronics....just don't send me the electric bill. ;<)

                              (For what it is worth, I plan on putting a hour meter on my TIG cart so I will know how many hours the welder (180SD) has been used.)

                              Also letting the welder run during a hot day can be an imprompt accelerated stress test that will catch early failures since higher temperature will cause infant mortality failures to occur sooner. As for failures that normally occur much later in a electronics device's life, when they will happen (every thing breaks down sometime) is determined largely determined by the quality of the original components and the temperatures that they have had to run in during their lifetime. Buying a top line product such as a Miller versus Brand X is the best way to hope that you are getting high quality components and the thermal environment they lived in is up to you the user.

                              Another helpful thing you can do is to take your welder for a ride on a bumpy ride. Think of it as a poor man's vibration test. If there are any loose connections or boards, the bumpy road test can help shake out that problem within the warranty period.

                              The last thing I can think of to watch for is to make sure to feed your welder a proper diet of electrical power. I have seen welders fed by hundreds of feet of extention cord and have been amazed that they were able to do anything.

                              As for most consumer electronics, the customer is the final quality control. Because we want our electronics cheap, companies have to cut costs and final testing is usually shortened or eliminated. This means that out of the box failures are more likely since it is cheaper for a company to replace a defective product than to do final testing at the factory...remember they are not paying for your time. The extensive testing that Miller products receive is one of the reasons why they cost more than Brand X sold at Cheap O' Mart....there is no free lunch and never has been.

                              TMT


                              Originally posted by Gaslight
                              It's interesting (to me only probably) that as I scan the memory banks for recent electronic purchases, I can think of quite a few that have packed it in without a lot of use, notwithstanding very careful treatment. This eror message thing caught my eye because of a laser range finder that just started displaying eror messages, and while I had owned it for a while, it was within it's first battery. I know it's apples and oranges, but I would have to have some better sense of the pattern of wear for these things, how fluky they are about shop conditions (not always heated). One thing that was mentioend about the Lincoln 185 was that it has internal electical components sealled in plastic against moisture. Anyway, it's tempting to get a DX because it so meets my needs other than what it costs. I'll have to think it over. Thanks for a lot of thought provoking responses.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Let's say I go against all the best advice and my own preferences, and was to purchase a 180 sd. It would seem as though a good first step would be to get a 60 amp breaker for my box, and test it to see if I can draw 30 a side through it? What do you think?

                                Thanks for all the other coments. I'm going to go out and see if I can find a DX at a reasonable price. If not I'll have to consider mail order or something.

                                If I'm allowed to ask, Too Many Tools, why did you decide on a Miller 180 SD and not a Precision TIG 185? If you gave the latter any thought at all. Seems as though the 185 has more features, but then Miller has a better name, and actualy invented Square wave, from what they say. ALso I was wondering more generally why it seems as though most people prefer Milelr. That seems what I hear everywhere I go. Up here, Lincoln was all I ever saw, I never even KNew Miller existed. All of a sudden they are everywhere, and seem the prefered brand. If I had to describe Ford vs GM, I know the history, and what their early and recent strengths are, but I don't know that relative to Miller. There must be a compeling reason.

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