Help locating parts

[deepcj7]

I'm trying to wire my new 180 SD, it's rated at 54 amps. Where in the heck do you find a 60 amp plug/receptacle? I tried electrical suppliers and they are talking about pin type receptacles that cost $50 each. I need a NEMA # for plugs and receptacle if anyone can help me out. I could be welding right now if I would just install a 50 amp, you can find those anywhere.
For 40' of extension cord, 6/3 SO seem to be what most have recommended, how does this sound? The manual recommends #3 for 100' or less. Thanks

[hankj]

That 54 amp input draw only occurs when you are welding at 180 amps output. I doubt you will do that very often, if at all. Go with a 50A breaker and 6-50P/R hardware. A 6/3 SO cord will be fine.

hank

[Ryphraph]

I have been trying to find a 60 amp plug set up as well. Forget about Home Depot, the guy looked at me like I was crazy. I may just use a 60 amp a/c quick disconnect and hard wire it.

Ryph

[dyn88]

try an electrical wholesaler. They do make them although you may need to use a three phase plug and receptacle.

[deepcj7]

What do you think?

I found some in a MSC industrial supply catalog. It's a Hubbell 60 amp, 4 wire for single phase (NEMA# 14-60P) at $79.00. Is this what you guys are using? Please feel free to help out a newbie. Thanks

[Blown S-10]

$79 for a freakin plug

try googling for electrical supply. i bet you can have one overnighted for a lot less than that.

[hankj]

The only 3-pole/4-wire 240V NEMA classification available is 14-60(R/P). Unless you really need the 60 amps, I suggest you stay with 50 amp circuits. An alternative is to hard-wire the unit to a disconnect. There is an L6-60(P/R) locking 2-ploe/3-wire setup, and the L14-60(P/R) is the locking equivalent of the 14-60.

Hank

[INTP]

I'm running my 180SD on 6/3 wire with a NEMA 6-50 plug/receptacle. The breaker is 50A because that's what I had on hand, but I'll put in a 60A if I need it. Haven't had to yet, and I doubt I will.

[kdahm]

Some free electrical advice....

worth exactly what you paid for it.

Having the exact plug rating for the amperage is irrelevant. It is critical, though, that the plug is rated higher than the expected amperage.

The breaker should have the lowest rating in the system. Always!

Looking at two examples:

1. Your coffee maker is busy running all day, and it's a real power hog. It even runs on 230v. You change the plug out to a 50a,230V Nema 6-50 and change the power cord to a #4. The line from the breaker box is a #2. The breaker you select is rated at 10 amps.

Regardless of how much coffee is made, the breaker will always trip before the rest of the system gets close to melting. You may have spent a lot of money that you didn't need to, but the circuit is safe.

2. Frank D. Clueless is wiring a Synchro 180 in his garage. He sees that it needs a 70 amp breaker, so he goes to the Orange Store and gets one. The circuit is wired with some 14/3 lying around from a ceiling fan project, and a standard 3 prong 110 volt socket used. There is a spare lamp cord hanging up, so it replaces the original cord and plug. The ground is not connected between the machine and the socket. Of course, it is wired at 230v.

He starts welding. Several things may, and probably will happen.
a. He gets the shock of his life when touching the case, because of no ground and poor maintenance.
b. The lamp cord melts
c. The plug and socket melt and catch on fire
d. The wiring between the breaker box ond the socket melt and catches on fire
e. The new 70 amp breaker does its job nicely and stays closed, because it never sees 70 amps.

If Frank had used a 15 amp breaker, wired everything at 110 volts, and used a ground between the machine and the plug, he may have been acceptable. Welding performance will not be very good though.

In other words, use a 50 amp circuit if that is what is cost effective. Do not, however, install a larger breaker without making sure that the wiring and the plug are rated at least as high as the breaker.

Note: See NEMA standards, the NEC and local codes, and consult a licensed electrician for actual requirements. I am not, nor have I ever been, a professional electrician.

Karl

[dyn88]

well said karl

[deepcj7]

worth exactly what you paid for it.

Having the exact plug rating for the amperage is irrelevant. It is critical, though, that the plug is rated higher than the expected amperage.

The breaker should have the lowest rating in the system. Always!

Looking at two examples:

1. Your coffee maker is busy running all day, and it's a real power hog. It even runs on 230v. You change the plug out to a 50a,230V Nema 6-50 and change the power cord to a #4. The line from the breaker box is a #2. The breaker you select is rated at 10 amps.

Regardless of how much coffee is made, the breaker will always trip before the rest of the system gets close to melting. You may have spent a lot of money that you didn't need to, but the circuit is safe.

2. Frank D. Clueless is wiring a Synchro 180 in his garage. He sees that it needs a 70 amp breaker, so he goes to the Orange Store and gets one. The circuit is wired with some 14/3 lying around from a ceiling fan project, and a standard 3 prong 110 volt socket used. There is a spare lamp cord hanging up, so it replaces the original cord and plug. The ground is not connected between the machine and the socket. Of course, it is wired at 230v.

He starts welding. Several things may, and probably will happen.
a. He gets the shock of his life when touching the case, because of no ground and poor maintenance.
b. The lamp cord melts
c. The plug and socket melt and catch on fire
d. The wiring between the breaker box ond the socket melt and catches on fire
e. The new 70 amp breaker does its job nicely and stays closed, because it never sees 70 amps.

If Frank had used a 15 amp breaker, wired everything at 110 volts, and used a ground between the machine and the plug, he may have been acceptable. Welding performance will not be very good though.

In other words, use a 50 amp circuit if that is what is cost effective. Do not, however, install a larger breaker without making sure that the wiring and the plug are rated at least as high as the breaker.

Note: See NEMA standards, the NEC and local codes, and consult a licensed electrician for actual requirements. I am not, nor have I ever been, a professional electrician.

Karl

You are absolutly correct. That is why I'm avoiding the easy route and purchasing 50 amp products. I think I may have a lead on free 60 amp plugs, but they are for 3 phase 240V. Can these products be wired up for single phase? The plug has 4 blades and a pin, hopefully instructions come with it.

[ASKANDY]

Sure.
A 3 phase plug can be wired for single phase, just drop one hot lead. The only thing is that it now is a dedicated plug and receptacle that no other machines can plug into. At least no one can come and borrow your machine!

Andy

[INTP]

I would think that using a 3 phase receptacle, wired as single phase would be more dangerous than putting a NEMA 6-50 on 6/3 wire and a 60A breaker. Part of the safety of the NEC is to avoid danger to persons who will service the wiring, as well as preventing damage to connected equipment.

[deepcj7]

I would think that using a 3 phase receptacle, wired as single phase would be more dangerous than putting a NEMA 6-50 on 6/3 wire and a 60A breaker. Part of the safety of the NEC is to avoid danger to persons who will service the wiring, as well as preventing damage to connected equipment.

Could you expound on what your saying. I don't understand what the danger is, I can't tell the difference between single and 3 phase plugs except that it's printed on the body of it. I am by no means a electrician.
Thanks for all who have posted.

[INTP]

It's analagous to the reason that you always use red or black for the hot wires and white for the neutral. As far as conductors go, the color doesn't matter. But someone later may be servicing the circuit and if you didn't follow the standard, they could get hurt or could wire something in a way that damaged equipment that is hooked up to the circuit. Switching the hot and neutral on a lamp circuit can make the difference between getting shocked and not getting shocked, although the light will work either way.

So if someone comes along later and sees a three phase receptacle, but it's wired for single phase, they may think they can plug in their three phase motor and instead of it working correctly, it could overheat and start a fire. That's where I was going on this.

Part of the NEMA spec is to act as an indicator of the circuit capacity (or ampacity as it were) and prevent misuse of the cirucuits. The dryer outlet that is rated at 30A tells you that the capacity of the wire is 30A (10GA) and is on a 30A breaker. You can tell by looking at it that you shouldn't put your 50A welder on there. Similarly, you generally shouldn't use a 50A receptacle with 10GA wire, because someone should be able to assume that the conductors can handle 50A, which would be untrue in this case.

The NEC has many rules, and many exceptions, and I'm not up to speed on all of the exceptions, though I have a grasp of the basics. Dedicated welding circuits are one case of exceptions, as are motors that have a higher starting load than running load. If it really interests you, you can spend a lot of time getting to know it (years, actually).

The breakers are there to protect the wires from being overloaded, (which causes them to overheat.) I never put a breaker on a circuit where the breaker rating is greater than the ampacity of the conductors. I've put a 115V 20A receptacle on a 10/2 wg wire with a 30A single pole circuit breaker and labeled the receptacle as '30A' though, and I am confident I'm not going to overheat the receptacle. (This was to prevent my air compressor from tripping the 20A breaker on startup, since it surges to as much as 55A on startup.)