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  • Leons2003
    replied
    I think I would have used the Lincoln E 7024 "JETWELD", good for horizontal welds only on heavy structural fab., requires no gap. A machine adjusted correctly slag will curl up behind the puddle as it cools. Used 5/32" recently on 3/8" buttwelds, of course required positioning the box for a hor.weld. Originally introduced to this rod back in '60's for welding skids for gas compress units.
    Good luck.
    L*S

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  • HAWK
    replied
    Paulbrown,

    I was thinking about the arc blow, but have not seen it that bad with 7018's on DCRP. Larger rods can be harder to run, but a 5/32 in position should not be much different than a 1/8" 7018. I have seen rods do this and it just turned out to be a bad lot run by the rod manufacturer. McKay rods have always been consistent for me. Lincoln has several variations of the 7018 the work really well. I forget the number, but it is a fast freeze version of a 7018 and has great restrike characteristics.

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  • paulrbrown
    replied
    GaryM,
    dUDE, it sounds like you are experiencing [ARC BLOW] a condition which is pecuilar to DC welding, you can aviod this by placing the work clamp closer to the work and in a different position realitive to the direction of travel to the electrode. You can also use AC with 7018 rod to completely avoid this problem, you will get a little more metal deposition this way also. There are certain 7018 rods that are optimized for AC also...Hope this helps, Paul

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  • GaryM
    replied
    Hawk I never was able to get a good pass with the 5/32. The rod was new right out of a 10pound can from lincon.

    I tried up to 200A and it would start nice about about 2/3 the way down the weld it would start burning ever eratict. One side of the rod would be gone and the would be sticking out 1/4" and you could not get the proper distance and it would throw crap all over the place. This happened a lot even down to 180A. But the 1/8 rod run perfect at 135A with dig at 30.

    Gary

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  • HAWK
    replied
    Off the subject some: JTMcC is correct. The real world weld joints are designed around cost per weld. Open root butt joints can be very expensive in terms of labor and material. Threre are other joints that will serve ths same purpose at much less cost per weld.

    Gary,

    Did you ever get the 5/32" 7018's to run well? Looking back through the years I have seen them burn as hot as 190 amps on 1/2" plate. As revpol mentioned each machine burns different. A good dry rod from a fresh tube or heater box will also help.

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  • JTMcC
    replied
    Originally posted by paulrbrown
    JTMcC, Just goes to show how confusing the regulations can be at times, no wonder the D1:1 book is 300 or 400 pages.....revpol is right about the 6010 for open groove root, 7018 does not have enough gas shield to protect the back of the root as most of its shielding comes from the slag layer. Thanks for the clarification on 1". Paul
    D1.1/2002 is over 500 pages.
    An open butt structural test is very, very rare. That joint configuration isn't used in structural work unless absolutely neccesary, it's a very expensive weld in the structural world.
    Gas shielding isn't the issue with open butt welds, it's the push, or rod characteristics that make 6010/7010/8010 the prefered rod for open vee butt welds.

    JTMcC.

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  • DDA52
    replied
    Revpol is right about the cert acceptance. I had my AWS certs refused a few times. Not many, but enough to be a pain. I started checking on that before I bid jobs after that happened a few times. The main reason was because, while the company would retest you, they would also charge twice what the AWS cert cost me. Needless to say, I don't work for them anymore. Two times was enough.

    Like JT said, my test was a vertical and overhead to qualify all position.

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  • GaryM
    replied
    Lots of Info here with the AWS welding certs. Thanks very much


    Gary

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  • paulrbrown
    replied
    JTMcC, Just goes to show how confusing the regulations can be at times, no wonder the D1:1 book is 300 or 400 pages.....revpol is right about the 6010 for open groove root, 7018 does not have enough gas shield to protect the back of the root as most of its shielding comes from the slag layer. Thanks for the clarification on 1". Paul

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  • revpol
    replied
    Gary: I have welded and set procedures on a quite a feww jobs and it really is what the company wants. Sometimes it's 1in open root -1in w/backup strip sometimes it's 3/8 or 1/2in open or backing. The open root is welded most of the time with 6010 up or downhand on the vert. depending on what proceedure they are using. In my area the standard structual test is with 3/8 or 1/2in plate with a back-up strip then either x-ray or guided bend (root/face). If you are taking a 1in test, great. If this is for aws certs just be aware that some companies will honor and some won't honor your certs. Sometimes you have to test for each co. and it may be the same test. When I first got into my trade (boilermaker) we had to test on each job unless we worked for that co. again within 90days. Some jobs I've had to take a plate test w/backup, a 2" tube w/tig root and a heavy wall pipe w/tig root. revpol

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  • JTMcC
    replied
    Originally posted by paulrbrown
    revpol and gary,

    It is my understanding that even though you have an 'open groove' cert, you still have to pass a fillet if that is what you will be welding.

    I have heard from some that is you pass the overhead you are certified for all other positions,

    Paul
    No, you don't have to take a fillet test. An AWS D1.1 1" plate test qualifies the welder for all positions and unlimited thickness.

    No, you have to do both a vertical and an overhead.

    JTMcC.

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  • GaryM
    replied
    Thanks for the info Paul I will have to look into it more and see if i was told right.

    Gary

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  • paulrbrown
    replied
    revpol and gary,
    when I certified 3 years ago for AWS D1:1 fillet, unlimited thickness, both GMAW and SMAW, we used 1/2" plate welded one side with a 5/16 minimum fillet. This coupon was then broken and total root fusion was looked for. They also looked for undercut,tie in, and porisity. The 1" you are refering to I believe is for open groove welds, which is much more diffulicut to pass, the 3/8" ones I did while in school sure were. It is my understanding that even though you have an 'open groove' cert, you still have to pass a fillet if that is what you will be welding. The nice thing about the fillet test is that you don't cut and polish the coupon, just bend until destruction. I have heard from some that is you pass the overhead you are certified for all other positions, this was not the case for me,[AWS D1:1 National] 3 & 4 qualified you also for 1 @ 2. 1/flat,2/horizontal,3/vertical,4/overhead.
    Just remember, the best accesory you can have is probably a power brush with stringer bead design, the flat ones, not the cup design, that will get into the groove/fillet to really bust out that slag, sometimes you may need a 7" one to get into tigt areas, but the 4.5/5 " usually will do the trick.Make sure you get a good one [Weiler,Osborne,...] I have had problem with Dewalt., they Dewalt destruct fast and leave you looking like a porcupine, plus those wires like your eyes,neck,stomach......Say no to China on this item.
    Hope this makes sense/helps, Paul

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  • GaryM
    replied
    Yes the 1" is for unlimited thickness. For washington st there is the 3/8 and 1" plate test I would like to pass the 1". That way i dont have to worry about anything when working on a job!


    For this 1/2 plate fillet weld i ended up useing 1/8 7018 and running a root, 2 filler passes and then a 3 pass cover. turned out great.

    Gary

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  • revpol
    replied
    Gary: Amp settings vary from mach. to mach also by wire size of leads,length and many other variables. The main thing you want is to have the puddle "flow". If you're fighting it you are doing something wrong. About the test you are practicing for, 1in is usually only given for unlimited thickness. You might want to check into a standard structual guided bend test which is a 3/8 x 6in plate where they bend a "root and face" bend. This will qualify you to weld thicknesses up to 15/16in. These tests are usually welded in 3 positions (horiz.-vert.-overhead). This may be a cheaper way to get yourself going on certs. revpol

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