Tell me what you think

[pejenkins]

Recently I sold my Lincoln MIG and I plan to upgrade to a larger Miller. I have 2 questions.
1. I cannot decide between the Millermatic 175 and the Millermatic 210. On the one hand I could always use the
x-tra range the 210 provides, but then if I get over 1/4"
stuff (which is rare) I could use my Miller stick. I notice that the 175 provides "infinite voltage control" whereas
the 210 doesn't mention it. For a "week-end welder" what
would be your recommendation ? Money isn't really an
issue, I just don't want to spend more money than I need
to.
2. I plan to go to school to learn TIG welding, again as a hobby. What's up with the ECONOTIG. Is it waste of money
as suggested in a previous post ? I would be doing mild/stainless and aluminum of less than 1/4".
Thanks for you help.

PEJENKINS

[Teeps]

Might want to wait for the new miller mig that is coming out, it's between the 175 and 210. Lots of flexibility.

I'm curious on the Econotig for a weekender as well.
However many say the syncrowave, or a Thermal are better choices. Dunno though for the price range.

edit:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=45031&item=3838670048&rd=1

This one is only $200 more than the econotig.

Check this link for current required to tig 1/4"

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/basics_hints/basics5.html

Doh!!! 330-450 amps!!! = double the price or more!!!

They must mean single pass.

[cope]

Recently I sold my Lincoln MIG and I plan to upgrade to a larger Miller. I have 2 questions.
1. I cannot decide between the Millermatic 175 and the Millermatic 210. On the one hand I could always use the
x-tra range the 210 provides, but then if I get over 1/4"
stuff (which is rare) I could use my Miller stick. I notice that the 175 provides "infinite voltage control" whereas
the 210 doesn't mention it. For a "week-end welder" what
would be your recommendation ? Money isn't really an
issue, I just don't want to spend more money than I need
to.
2. I plan to go to school to learn TIG welding, again as a hobby. What's up with the ECONOTIG. Is it waste of money
as suggested in a previous post ? I would be doing mild/stainless and aluminum of less than 1/4".
Thanks for you help.

PEJENKINS

I think the MM210 is the best machine for the money, but I haven't tried the new Miller. It is dual voltage but if its almost as heavy as the 210. If you don't have a voltage issue I would get the 210. I think for the slight difference in price the 180SD is a much better choice than the Econotig.

[Sberry]

The MM210 definately, its a way better machine, twice machine as a 175 and actually you may find the tapped voltage easier to use. I have a 250 class with infinate and a 175 tapped, the 175 is wayyyy easier to get set correctly. If you like good tools the 210 is a clear winner over the 175's. The infinate wouldnt be a factor for me. A lot of these race teams use the 210's.

[HAWK]

Short and sweet. The MM210 is an excellent choice. The option to add a spoolgun for aluminum is worth the few extra dollars up front. I have seen the MM210 in numerous fab shops including 2 of the top NASCAR race car teams. All around I agree with Sberry.

[HAWK]

Add a few extra dollars for the Sync 180 over the Econotig.

[pejenkins]

Thanks to all who responded. Looks like it's the MM210....
unless they offer the NIV 175 very soon!! Again thanks, great info.

PJ

[Paul Seaman]

The mm210 is by the numbers only 25 amps better but the duty cycle is the clincher the 175 is only a 20% duty cycle and the mm210 is 60%.

Buy the mm210, you'll love it. I have used mine fairly well for 2 years and will still put it up against other. I weld Aluminum regularly, kinda cool.

Peace,

[Danny]

The MM 175 and MM DVI aren t even in the same class as the MM 210. The MM 210 has a far superior duty cycle and has the potential to output more power then 175 or DVI. When comparing MIG units the difference in amperage (BTW, 25 to 35 amps is actually a major difference) between the units is not the only thing to consider. The other important factor to consider is the voltage values that the machine is capable of outputting. The relationship between output voltage and amperage capabilities on a machine determine the metal transfer(s) that the unit is capable of producing. With the proper shielding gas the MM 210 has the potential to produce short circuit transfer ( shallow penetrating, C-25 or Co2 shielding gas), Globular transfer (deep penetrating, C25 or CO2 shielding gas, some spatter), and spray transfer (deep penetrating, 98/2 oxy, basically spatter free). Now, the MM 175 and MM DVI for any useful purposes are pretty much limited to being a short circuit transfer machine, because they lack the output power capabilities needed for the other metal transfers at any real useful levels.

Now, as far as the duty cycle rating goes lets just take a quick look at the 130 amp rating for each unit to get an idea how superior the 210 is in this area.

1. MM 175 - 30%
2. MM DVI - about 60%
3. MM 210 - about 100%

BTW, for the hobbyist weldor who isn t going to be welding all the time, a tapped voltage selection machine like the MM 210 is the way to go in my opinion. The tapped machines are quite a bit easier to dial the arc in on.

[cope]

BTW, for the hobbyist weldor who isn t going to be welding all the time, a tapped voltage selection machine like the MM 210 is the way to go in my opinion. The tapped machines are quite a bit easier to dial the arc in on.

I have +/-230 volts at the receptacle and I find that the door chart for voltage and +/-5% lower on wire speed gets me great welds with the 210. I agree with Dan on the tapped VS infinate adjustment. My son-in-law never picked up a mig gun until yesterday. He ran some beads with mt HH140 on 1/8" and then ran one bead with the 210 on 1/8" and 1 on 3/16" and the welds were excellent. I wish I had the hand control he has, but that's what arthritis does for you.

[Paul Seaman]

Tap machines are the old school but that is the tried and true. For the person who will be using it for one job all day long fabricating it may pay to have an inverter. Most people will like the bells and whistles but in the long run it just seems like goodies to fail when it gets old and worn. I've said before if money were not an issue I would own an Invision 345mp w/ 22a feeder, it has one of the smoothest arcs I've used and it pulses, one great combo. In the real world I tried most of the competition and comperable models and the mm210 kicked them all in "bang for the buck".

Peace,

[Sberry]

Yup, just the spec's,, amps+volts+duty cycle vs $ says it all. Plus by all reliable accounts the arc and the reliability are excellent. There are 2 other things I like about it. It will run 035 wire fairly well and its easy on the input service and would work well with cords if needed.

[HAWK]

[QUOTE=Dan] spatter free). Now, the MM 175 and MM DVI for any useful purposes are pretty much limited to being a short circuit transfer machine, because they lack the output power capabilities needed for the other metal transfers at any real useful levels.

Now, as far as the duty cycle rating goes lets just take a quick look at the 130 amp rating for each unit to get an idea how superior the 210 is in this area.

1. MM 175 - 30%
2. MM DVI - about 60%
3. MM 210 - about 100%

QUOTE]

Dan,

The DVI 175 lays down an absolutely fantastic and flawless spray with .030" ER70S-6 wire and 92% argon/8% CO2 which has been the standard GMAW shielding gas I have used for many years. This is with 230 VAC input power. It is not the same as having the MM175 in a larger cabinet. The dual voltage transformer taps give it a premium edge over the mm175.

[cope]

[QUOTE=HAWK
Dan,

The DVI 175 lays down an absolutely fantastic and flawless spray with .030" ER70S-6 wire and 92% argon/8% CO2 which has been the standard GMAW shielding gas I have used for many years. This is with 230 VAC input power. It is not the same as having the MM175 in a larger cabinet. The dual voltage transformer taps give it a premium edge over the mm175.[/QUOTE]

But, in your own words "Short and sweet. The MM210 is an excellent choice. The option to add a spoolgun for aluminum is worth the few extra dollars up front. I have seen the MM210 in numerous fab shops including 2 of the top NASCAR race car teams. All around I agree with Sberry."

[HAWK]

AC,

There is no doubt the MM210 is the better machine. It is also in a different class. The DVI 175 ranks between the MM175 and the MM210. It is indeed a hobbyist type machine designed for the 120VAC household garage use. If 220VAC input power is available then the machine certainly has a much stronger output. However, the output of the DVI is substantially less than the MM210. I do beleive the DVI 175 compares more closely to the MM210 than the MM175, but is is in no way close to the same machine as the MM210. As we who have spent our lives welding know there is more to a power source than amperage and duty cycle ratings.

After I made that post on the spray arc I spent several hours this evening trying to reproduce the results I obtained earlier in my testing. Unfortunately after 5 lbs of .030" ER70S-6 and several cubic feet of 92ar/8co2 I failed to get a consistent spray arc. I was using a canadian mild steel 3/16" channel 2" wide with a 3/8" lip for the base metal. The machine was powered by a 240 VAC 50 amp circuit. I burned a half dozen contact tips and two nozzles in my attempt to get a good clean flawless weld in the spray arc mode. I guess all the conditions were just right that day it happened.

On the other hand the DVI is a flexible usage short arc machine and will cross the barrier into spray for that occassional need should it arise. I think it is a great machine within its class and see it setting a precedent for a new market niche. I like having one in my shop for the pure simplicity and ease of use. I also have the 300 and 400 amp multi process machines when the duty calls.