Diamondback or CK torch?

[Protraxrptr17]

OK, I'm ordering my 300DX TIGRunner Friday . Which torch should I get? I did a search and it seems that most people like the CK better. Which size do I need? How much more is the CK with the Superflex hoses than the Diamondback? Is there that much of a difference between the two? I'm ordering the welder from my local welding supply, would it be easier to just get the Diamondback for convenience? I don't know what I'm doing.

[joebass]

TIGrunner

My TIGrunner came with the 20 series diamond back. I already had a 20 series CK so I had my dealer swap out the Diamondback for a 25 foot CK 230 Flex head torch. Basically this is a 300 amp torch that is much smaller than an 18 torch. He did this for no charge. If you want to keep the 20 sized torch then it probably won't make any difference to switch because they both have the nice braided rubber superflex cables. Either way if your spending 5 grand on a machine your dealer should swap out any torch that you want for no fee. The Diamondback torches are pretty costly anyways so he wont lose any money. If you keep the 20 sized torch I would get some stubby gas lens collet bodies and some button back caps also. This will let you get into really tight spaces.

[ASKANDY]

Both torches are quality units and you won't be unhappy with either. You may also want to get a weldcraft catalog. They have some real nice torches too. I have some of the SF-225 torches that are great for multiple jobs. It has interchangable heads that screw on to the torch body and come in many styles. It's also a flex head.

Just a thought...

Andy

[joebass]

Yeah, that Weldcraft setup is pretty cool also. I'm not sure about the price though or if it comes with the superflex cables. Every Weldcraft that I've used has had the plastic hoses and they are pretty stiff. I know that the crafter series has the braided rubber hoses but they are BIG money. Still it is worth checking out though if your in the market for a new torch.

[HAWK]

The SR-225 is the super flex cable version of the SF-225. The interchangeable heads are great. If you do a lot of head work, then see if the factory will make a set of torch heads for extremely high temperature enviroments. They did it for a friend of mine. In a tight spot, like down in a cylinder, the back of the torch head may hit the opposing wall surface and melt the rubber coating off the torch head.

Also the different heads do take different consumables, but that not really a big deal. I know several welders who use the SR-225 and SF-225 Weldcrafts and have had great results. The water does not actually circulate through the head in this or any other torch with removeable heads (at least not that I have found). However, it stays cool enough.

Andy turned me onto this torch originally. It's a great torch. However, I would not recommend it as your only torch because of its amperage rating and the lack of a water circulating head.

CK makes more specialty torches than any other manufacturer. Unless the application is very specific or unique, the #20 water cooled torch in most brands will do a fine job.

Don't knock the Diamond Back until you have tried it. I have several and they suit a variety of needs. I does not matter if it says Miller on it. I have a habit of using what works well for me regardless of brand or price. The Diamond Back is not acutally manufactured by Miller, but is made to their engineered specifications. As I said I have 3 and they work well for me. Believe me if the first one did not perform extremely well, then I would not have invested in 2 additional #20 Diamond Backs!

[Protraxrptr17]

Well, what really drew me to the CK is the Super Flex cables and those clear gas lenses. But keep in mind I'm trying to learn, so I need something user friendly. I need a torch that will be easy for a rookie to use in a broad range of situations. So what you fellas are saying is that I can't really go wrong with any brand 20 series torch?

joebass, in reguards to the the CK 230 flex head you have. Is there a problem with using a 300 amp torch for everything?

I see that ya'll have several different size torches. Is this just because the smaller amperage torches are more manuverable than the bigger ones? Or is it because you have to match the amperage you are going to run with the size of your torch?

I'm sure this is a stupid question, but I have to ask. Thanks to all of you for taking time to help me. This is a huge investment for me and I have to get it right.

HAWK, in my numerous searches through the archives I have noticed you recommending different blends of shielding gas. What would you prescribe for a rookie like me? I'll be doing mainly aluminum in all different thicknesses, a little thin stainless, and some thin steel. I also noticed some folks saying that larger cylinders had better quality gas. Which size should I get? I'll be using this thing every spare minute I can get to learn.Again, thanks a million for your time. Very much appreciated.

[Scott V]

Not that it matters but anyone interested in one of the best deal in a 20 series torch should check out Binzel stuff. I picked up one for $120.00 to go along with my air-cooled 17 series Weldcraft.

[HAWK]

Protraxrptr17,

I recommend 100% argon for learning to TIG. It is good for stainless steel. mild steel, and aluminum Once you learn the GTAW process you may want to try a helium/argon blend for aluminum. The Dynasty 300 has plenty of power and a helium mix is not necessary in most cases.

Attached are a couple of pictures of the Miller Diamond Back #20. One shows size and the other shows calbe flexibility. I have an assortment of gas lenses, pyrex cups, trailing shields (for titanium) and other CK accessories for the 20 Diamond Back. Most of my acccessories are CK. I have not found much along the accessory line that will not interchange between brands.

[ASKANDY]

I have a number of torches, 3 of them being the SF 225-R and they all came with super flex hoses. The different heads do take different consumables depending on the head size but these are still standard parts found on all #9, #17, #20, or #24 sizes. The most common heads take the 20 style parts. I also have a number of the Diamondbacks, 2 CK air cooled torches, and 1 WeldTech torch. They all perform well and no complaints so it really will come down to your personal preference and cost. If you don't need the interchangability, why pay for it.

andy

[joebass]

As hawk said the 20 torch is fine for a lot of applications. I use the CK 20 sized torch most of the time. The pyrex CK cups and also the CK stubby collet bodies will fit any torch. I have had the weldcraft 18 torch and its alot bigger. I have also had the weldcraft 24 and it's real nice for tight spots. I use the 20 with stubby gas lens and a button back cap if I need to get in a tight space. This set up is almost as compact as the 24 torch. If I'm welding at a high amperage for a while then I use the CK 230. Miller wouldn't give you a 20 sized torch on a 300 amp machine if it wasn't fine for most work and it does come with superflex cables. As I said before I would have kept it if I didn't already have a CK 20.

As far as gas goes I lease the big 336 cf tanks because the suppliers around here wont sell a cylinder that big. It costs 39.00 a year for the lease and 29.00 for a fill. I also own a few 125 cf tanks they cost 19.00 to fill and cost me 175.00 a piece. My dealer charges the same 39.00 per year to lease this size.

[Protraxrptr17]

Well, I went ahead and got the Diamondback. My new rig should be here Wednesday. I'm so excited. Can't wait

[HAWK]

Same Torches Differents Lens + Machine

Protraxrptr17,

Here are 3 pictures: The Tigrunner setup with 2 torches, 2 torches, close up of 2 torches. Both torches are Miller Diamond Back #20 like you will get with your Tigrunner package.

One is the standard set up with the medium back cap, #7 cup, and 3/32 2% lanthanated tungsten. This set up will do most of your work from 30-300 amps. I would change to 1/16" tungsten somewhere around 30 amps and below until you hit critical tolerances like .004" ribbon. I use a .010" diameter thoriated tungsten for those super small sizes.

The other is the Miller factory #20 Diamond Back with a $25 CK pyrex diffuser gas lens. I just replaced the pyrex cup on this with a brand new cup. It won't see any arc time until Monday AM. This is just to show these units can be inexpensive and easy to modify.

Good Luck with your new Tigrunner package and let us know if you need any help.

[chub380]

Hey Hawk,how do you like those clear cups? I thought about getting some but thought they would fog under heat. My tigrunner did not come with those, only the standard pink cups. Thanks for all your imput. Chub

[HAWK]

Protraxrptr17,

Here is an inexpensive alternative if you find yourself needing an extra torch. This is a Weldcraft WP-20. It has plain plastic hoses and I have a small gas lens rather than the standard cup and collet assembly. It's not real pretty with the foil wrap (keeps the heat off the plastic hoses), but the price was right and it is a good welding torch for the money.

[HAWK]

Hey Hawk,how do you like those clear cups? I thought about getting some but thought they would fog under heat. My tigrunner did not come with those, only the standard pink cups. Thanks for all your imput. Chub

chub380,

They are nice. I like the long stick out particularly on fillets and in corners. I have not experienced any fogging. I have to replace the pyrex occassionally due to the glass browning around the edges closest to the arc. They are well worth the money. I did initially find that removing the insulator at the torch head was necessary to get the collets to completely tighten up on the tungsten. It worked out well as there is still no exposed metal to shock me.

I bought mine from CK ( I think ) through a dealer. The whole kit with pyrex cup, threaded gas diffuser, screen diffuser, and insulator was around $25 including tax per tungsten diameter. I use them for 1/16" and 3/32" diameters.