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gas for mig on ss

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  • cnslmva
    replied
    Just my two cents worth,
    The local Airgas supplier in my area (SW Virginia, Roanoke) Does have 98/2 Argon/co2 "on the shelf" if I'm not mistaken. They tried to slip a bottle in on me instead of Argon/O2. You might check with them if you want to try the mixes Ed was refering to.

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  • HAWK
    replied
    Argon is great for SS TIG, but won't wash the toes and will have considerable bead roll up on the base surface with MIG.

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  • DDA52
    replied
    OOPS!
    Sparky I just reread your initial post. Your MM 135 won't like the straight Argon. It needs more heat. I'm guessing that's where the Helium comes into play with the tri-mix. I got st. Ar for some loominum repairs I need to do and just experimented with the stainless with it. I won't bother again. The C-25 worked much better.

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  • DDA52
    replied
    Originally posted by sparky123
    the stainless i will be welding is for the shell of a BAR-B-Q grill, and a grilling grate. the guy at the supply house told me 100% argon will be the best to use. i have a tank of C-25 on the welder now and i didn't want to have to but another cylinder. i think i will weld together some scrap and let it set in the rain for a few weeks and see if it rusts.

    Sparky
    I don't think you will like straight Argon. Yes it'll work ( not real sure how well ) but the beads won't wet out well at all. The machine you are using will dictate a little of how well it would work. I'm using a MM 135. It just doesn't have the guts to burn hot on anything but really thin sheet. Who knows, maybe you'll fare better.

    Side note: My welds on the stainless tool I fabbed up are holding very well. There is some discoloration around the HAZ, but it is minor, IMO. This tool is a concrete curb mule. When it is in use, it is covered in concrete. When it isn't being used, it stays submerged in a bucket of water. It was under water probably 3 or 4 hours total. It was in and out all day. I could see no rust or corrosion forming at all. I also found out that the SS is a cheap SS. High magnetic properties. Maybe I could have gone with C-25 and E70S-6 wire..... who knows. That weld would have rusted for sure in the water. Maybe my details will help someone, maybe not. At least I got to practice typing!

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  • sparky123
    replied
    the stainless i will be welding is for the shell of a BAR-B-Q grill, and a grilling grate. the guy at the supply house told me 100% argon will be the best to use. i have a tank of C-25 on the welder now and i didn't want to have to but another cylinder. i think i will weld together some scrap and let it set in the rain for a few weeks and see if it rusts.

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  • Teeps
    replied
    Yeah, I don't think my local guy can custom mix 80 cf tanks either, something that big has to be done buy AGA or the processing places that have the equiment to fill that much volume at those pressure levels.

    They have so much time in transit, and traffice time cycling through the facility, it just takes them that long to cycle tanks through. The only way you get anything quicker is if it was already filled 2-3 weeks ago, and it's pre-filled and waiting.

    I wouldn't mind waiting 2-3 weeks, if I'm planning ahead for a project, but I agree if you only get a days notice, you are screwed, heh.

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  • sparx
    replied
    After reading all the posts/replies to this category, I just want to point out that using C-25 to weld stainless steel will result in the steel not being stainless anymore. The carbon content in the stainless stell will accept using 25% C02 for welding, but the additon of the carbon from the CO2 will result in a crack sensitive weld with a high afinity for rust.
    just my 2 cents worth

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  • aametalmaster
    replied
    This is why I use 75/25 the number's may be off from the custom stuff but there is alway's a tank hanging on the back of my welder. Just switch the wire and we are off. I have a tank of Argon and I have used it but the puddle dosen't flow to suit me..Bob
    Miller 185 w/ 185 Spoolgun
    Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC

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  • DDA52
    replied
    You're fortunate. Noboby here that I've found can or will do that. It may be a little of both as it would require bending over. I even have the cylinder ( 80cf ), but no joy. I know that my old suppliers in Dallas and in Northern Va. could have set me up in no time. Things in the supply world are a bit sad here. If I decide later to get some, I guess I'll have to wait the 2-3 weeks.

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  • Teeps
    replied
    Yeah,

    Shade tree guys that buy gas in smaller quantities are ok though, the place I go to the guy will custom mix the stuff in about 10 minutes, using the tank that I bring in!!! But he doesn't have the ability to do larger tanks this way (pressure levels). I'm sure most professionals would be using much larger tanks than I'm using... 40 cf, etc.

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  • DDA52
    replied
    Originally posted by cope
    The big problem with Ed's recommendations is finding the gasses on the street.
    Yup. That's the problem I had. Most would custom blend a cylinder for me if I wanted to wait for two to three weeks. That is one of the main reasons I used the C-25. This time it worked out.

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  • cope
    replied
    The big problem with Ed's recommendations is finding the gasses on the street.

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  • Teeps
    replied
    Originally posted by hankj
    This horse has been beat severely in the past. Take a look here for another opinion. http://www.weldreality.com/default2.htm

    Hank
    Same site different page quoted below-------------------------
    --------------------------------------------------

    Gas Fact. Argon 3% CO2.
    Range 2 - 4% CO2. (SG-AC-3)
    Against the forces of aggressive gas salesmanship, fifteen years ago while working with AGA , I developed this gas mix for MIG stainless,

    For the last 15 years I have been advising companies to use argon with 3% CO2. Instead of argon oxygen for stainless spray applications,
    the argon 3 CO2 mix results in cleaner spray or pulsed welds with less weld porosity potential.

    For the same period of time I have been advising people to forget the common, more costly 90 helium - 7.5 argon - 2.5 CO2 tri mix, and instead use the more effective argon 3% CO2 mix for those "thin gage" stainless short circuit applications.

    In contrast to the costly helium tri mix recommended by all the major gas companies , there are six short circuit benefits attained from using the argon - 3 CO2 mix which provides lower weld energy with lower weld voltages; When used for "low carbon" stainless applications, the carbon content in the weld will be acceptable with this gas mix for both short circuit and spray applications.

    In contrast to the more costly, higher energy, helium tri-mix, the argon - 3% CO2 mix when used on thin gage applications can provide;

    [1] less part distortion,
    [2] less weld burnthrough potential,
    [3] less contact tip issues,
    [4] improved arc stability,
    [5] lower cost gas,
    [6] more gas in the cylinders.

    In today's North American weld industry in which gas marketing and gas sales strategy often has more in common with Disney Land than it has with MIG arc physics. It's been an uphill struggle to get the practical benefits of my two component CO2 message across. Try these mixes they works, are less costs and you get more gas from the cylinders.

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  • hankj
    replied
    This horse has been beat severely in the past. Take a look here for another opinion. http://www.weldreality.com/default2.htm

    Hank

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  • Teeps
    replied
    Originally posted by DDA52
    FYI, my ss is 16ga. The c-25 is giving full penetration without burn-thru. The discoloration brushed off easily.
    Thanks for the info...

    Yeah, it will be fun to see what differences, but I should also mention, in case it wasn't already a given. Having an Air-tight sealed weld is even more important than having a pretty weld.

    Since mine is on an exhaust system.
    I wonder if any of these welding gasses, or resultant by-products would result in pin-holes, or have any affect on that. Pin-holes = leaks, and back fires, ahhhh

    I'm hopeing the extra silicone in my mig wire, and my stainless steel wire brush will help with that

    Maybe I'm wrong, but I guessed the process for welding will basically go like this, cut the tubing to the right length, and angle, use a stainless steel brush to clean the metal near the weld joint, set it up under the car to the right fitment, tack it in 2 or 3 spots at each joint, once a section is done, Pull it out from under the car, and finish welding the gaps in the tubing, not sure if there are any caveats or rules of thumb on proper puddle/pattern and stroking, other than going slow enough for penetration, but not to hot for burn through.
    Maybe some brushing off will be needed for dirty welds. Grinding is not needed right?
    Maybe some sanding would reveal some pin holes and need for repair, dunno, I'm a newb at this.

    I guess the pictures will speak a thousand words heh.

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