swirling, weaving, whipping and more

[farmboy weldor]

for mig welding i see nice smooth beeds with c25 gas and some are rippelled, why and how do i get those ripples,is there a purpose behind it, i have a slight i dea of how to do it but im not sure if it is right... do i have to weave it or swirl it ?

another question
do different types of gas create different appearences of beads?, ive seen some bead nice and shiny like stick welds but mine are sort of dull.

and the last question i have is for vertical up welding do i whip it and what does that motion and how far should i go with the "whip",

thanx for any comments

[hankj]

1. A stringer bead is usually smooth. A bead with a weave motion will exhibit the layered effect you see.

2. Yes. CO2 = more spatter; C-25 less. In any case, the weld should have a pretty bright appearance. ER-70S-6 has silicon in it as a scavenger, and that action leaves a light brown "slag" on the weld, but it brushes away easily. Underneath, the weld metal should be shiny-bright. If your weld looks dull, my guess is it was too cold.

3. I'm not familiar with "whip". On vertical up, I try to keep the wire at the bottom of the puddle then quickly advance upward to the top (now the bottom of the "next' puddle), with a weave motion and continue the puddle upward. Hard to explain. After I read that, I'm not sure I understand what I said. For me, vertical down is easier. I only go up if it's the only solution.

[Teeps]

Well I went to the local supplier to get gas, and he changed my mind again on what to use, lol. I really don't know what to use, and I didn't feel confident insulting the guy by disagreeing with him, so I'm going to try it his way, and see how I like the welds.

I was going to try pure argon, he said if I do that, I will have a high weld bead, he said for migging stainless with .025 I'm better off using 18% CO2 with Argon. I don't know what the **** he really meant by that, I assume he means not enough penetration, so the bead stays higher on the surface. He said with the 18% CO2 you get a flatter bead on the work piece, and he said it "wets-out the puddle better" I told him I already had 80/20, so to give me some 10% CO2.

I have a 20 cf tank with the 20%, a 40 cf tank with the 10%, and I will probably buy another 40 cf tank for pure Argon eventually, and try all three methods.

So based on all the different opinions on what gas to use, I'm finding out that gas really does affect the weld quality, or I should say "appearance". I'm gold even C25 will work but it looks dirty, or blackened on stainless.
I think gas type will even change depending on what level of heat is introduced from the welding process, high current for thick stuff, or low current for this stuff, or what type of metal, thick aluminum=lots of current. Then a proper gas to match the temp level needed.

I just need to find some scrap stainless so I can spend hours experimenting. I'm after some good clean corrosion free welds, although I have no illusions about making some Tig quality looking welds, especially with my lack of experience.



Good Luck!!!

The great news is this gas only cost me $9.60!!!!!! hahaha.
Too bad these new tanks are costing me $80.00 each

[Paul Seaman]

Farmboy Welder:
The pattern your looking for, will depend on, the position, the weld joint design and the joint preperation. The whip you described is actually just a weave with a count of 2 on the sides and fast across the center, this is the norm for most steel I do. The idea is that the count on the sides will fill the center and by moving fast in the middle you don't blow the middle out of your puddle.

hope this helps,

[farmboy weldor]

still confused, this is for stick or mig? the whip was a question for vertical up stick welding, sorry if there was any confusion

[Paul Seaman]

I use this for mig and stick but the stepping up is slightly different. In mig I step up in a z pattern, in stick I do a J pattern. The basics are the same but vertical up us difficult and the hardest part is getting the speed across the center and hanging out a bit on the sides and making the move up the same each time.
Hope this helps, for the record I beat my head against the wall for 4 weeks in school trying to get the vert. up butt weld right, I did, but don't get frustrated we all struggle on somethings sometime. For the record my greatest hint for consistancy is rock and roll music, my best verticals are always in time with stairway to heaven or black dog by zeplin. Jazz and Classical work too, stay away from things with huge tempo changes.

Peace,

[farmboy weldor]

nice

im not really into listening to music while welding because i like to hear the arc but ill definitely have to try it

[Paul Seaman]

Some things help, some don't, but some you never even think of and bam that was the missing link. I try many different things and see the results, that way if I see a problem later I know how to fix it or why its happening, I think it makes me better because I am not afraid of doing it differently, if it works for me.

Peace,

[hankj]

Teeps,

The gas of choice that I know for SS is tri-mix for GMAW. (90% He, 7.5% Ar, 2.5% CO2)

Hank

[Teeps]

Hank, Thanks,
yeah I heard and read that as well, but then I also read for thin wall stainless, (.065 / 16 guage like I'm dealing with) that the helium tri-mix runs too hot. I've heard this from local suppliers, and read it on a web site, but maybe they are all wrong, I might just try it myself and see how it works.

Edit::

http://www.weldreality.com/stainlesswelddata.htm

[cope]

Stainless Mix

Hank, Thanks,
yeah I heard and read that as well, but then I also read for thin wall stainless, (.065 / 16 guage like I'm dealing with) that the helium tri-mix runs too hot. I've heard this from local suppliers, and read it on a web site, but maybe they are all wrong, I might just try it myself and see how it works.

Edit::

http://www.weldreality.com/stainlesswelddata.htm

HAs anyone tried the 98Ar/2CO2 that Ed Craig recommends for Stainless?

[Alex]

PJS,
I can really identify. Zepellin is great for welding. Have you tried Stevie Ray Vaughn or ZZ Top? Good rhythms for weave patterns. I, too, use the Z pattern on mig V-up and J on stick V-up. Turn it up loud and go for it.

Weld on,
Alex

[paulrbrown]

I have used the 98/2 ar/02 for stainless sprayarc, but not co2....it is fast and hot, welding fillets on 1/4 to 3/8 304, it would have taken me 8 times as long to shortcircuit it. It also sounds and looks great while welding, kinda like a hose stream of molten metal. And no spatter!!!! I still think using co2 with stainless will lead to carbide percipitation????not the 'sugar' you see on the back side, but the microscopic stuff that leads to embrittlement. Any ideas out there? Paul,

[Scott V]

HAs anyone tried the 98Ar/2CO2 that Ed Craig recommends for Stainless?

Cope for short-arc stainless it really will not lay out a very good bead. You could use it for making tiny little beads if you want but it really is a spray gas. All this info was from Joel at Airgas. I would just use tri-mix because I get it cheap.
Of course if you had a powermig 300 you could use trimix for both. ( It will force a spray though it's programing )

[Paul Seaman]

Alex:
Yea man! My sweet trick is a sony mini disc with some new ear buds called plugs made by Koss. The ear plugs keep all the hot sparks out and great music in, also since it is a captive music with no signal High frequency has no effect. Word of caution in shops with others working around you these block all outside noise and could get you hurt! I listen to many types of music and have a disc of jazz, one of classical, 3-4 of old fasion rock and roll, even have some big band scattered amongst the 6-7 discs in my welding gear.