MIG - Stainless 16 guage - Wire? Gas?

[Teeps]

Question from a newbie welder....

Correct gas (hotter gas needed?) to use for this project?

Correct Wire needed for this project? .030 stainless? Something with more silicone for smoother weld?

110 volt,
30-135 amp output, Mig welder.

So it runs off 110 volt power, I've used 75% Argon, 25% CO2 to weld steel with it before, using solid core wire, I love it.

I'm going to do a complete exaust system with 3 to 3.5" 16 guage Stainless steel tubing. Which I think is roughly .065" thick.

So looking for recommendations on what type of wire, and what type of thickness.

Also, what type of gas wold be best?

Thanks in advanced for any insight,

Don

[Paul Seaman]

Tri-mix gas would be the choice and I would buy either .023 or .030 SS wire. My supplier will exchange cylinders for me with a different inert gas but I end up paying for the full cylinder of gas as the cost, so it can be expensive but I now have c25 and straight Argon on site this takes care of all but SS.

Buy a name brand of wire and it will run much better, the machine should do fine. Practice on some scrap first before you ruin the good stuff, it does run a bit different than mild steel. Tubing can be difficult so be patient!!!

Weld well, weld safe,

[Teeps]

Thanks for your insight, I think I'm going to go on the safe side, and use .023 wire.
I once butt welded exhaust tubing, aluminized steel tubing, partially corroded with fricken gas-core wire, can you say "murder"!!!!
I burned through a million times.

I switched to argon/co2 25% and .023 and that was easy to weld, even aluminized steel tubing (just ugly, and don't inhale)

I was reading up, and I also read elseware that 90% Helium, 7.5% Argon, 2.5% mixed gas is about as good as it gets for clean s.s. welds.

I'm not sure what type of S.S. exhaust tubing usually is, but I'm told 308 wire works with most.

I'm still not sure what the terms, spray weld, or short circuit weld means, but I'm learning, heh.

The people at the local welding supply didn't know what wire to use, and also said they sell a Tri-mix, Oxygen, CO2, Argon, I think this would be way worse, and probably would cause oxidation, these people should not be giving advice, lol.

Thanks for your insight,

Don

[DDA52]

Teeps
I asked a similar question on the Hobart board and Shop Floor. The responses I got were basically tri-mix and 308L. I also asked about using C-25 for gas. The response was just use it .... my small application wasn't critical nor was it cosmetic. I ended up using .030 308L wire with C-25 on 18 ga. stainless. I got a little carbon precipitation, but overall a good product with strong enough welds. It was suggested somewhere I could use straight Argon with much the same result. Not sure since I do enough stainless to hate it. I'll give it a try as I'm picking up an Ar cylinder tomorrow for some aluminum. BTW, the tri-mix I had recommended was 90% He, 7.5% Ar,& 2.5% CO2.

Here is the link I was given for some tech data. http://www.weldreality.com/stainlesswelddata.htm
Definitely some heavyish reading.

[Teeps]

Thanks very much for the info,

I'll have to do some reading up, on exactly what "C25" is.

Just some back ground, this will be exhaust tubing on a car, I decided to go stainless, because of 1) appearance, and 2) I live in Michigan, LOL>
3) I have noticed welding on steel, results in huge corrosion at the weld joint, especially on nice salted winter roads here in MI, it happens very fast, and this exhaus system I'm welding out of straight tubing, and Mandrel U-bends.
So I will be cutting tubing to the right angle, and welding it up. Translation - alot of work, and alot of welds. So this system I would like to last quite a while, since it will not be cheap either.

So I was hoping using stainless wire, and tubing to atleast make some welds that will last, and not corrode instantly. Maybe some of that is unavoidable, I'd like to think this will atleast delay it longer.

So having corroded welds, or using a welding process that lends to even more oxidation, is kind of like throwing the stainless tubing (or the whole idea) away. I'm thanking my lucky stars I didn't buy that Oxygen mix recommended from the local supplier, what a waste that would have been.

I don't even think that supplier has the Helium mix, I'll have to see what's around, I might have to go to pure Argon, or with 2% CO2 or something like that.

Thanks again for the insight.

Don

[Teeps]

**********
"the lower cost, 2 component argon CO2 mix will reduce;
weld burn through,
weld distortion,
weld oxidation,"*************

****, they said at that link, for thin gauge stainless, the ARGON with 2% CO2
Is not only cheaper, but alot better for Mig welding.

Thanks guys!!!!

[DDA52]

Thanks very much for the info,

I'll have to do some reading up, on exactly what "C25" is.
Don

C-25 is the standard Ar/CO2 mix used with mild steel GMAW. 75% Argon and 25% CO2. It probably wouldn't be a good idea for your application. The carbon precipitation that would result will introduce a corrosion element to the welds. The welds also have a very dark to black look also due to the CP.

[Teeps]

Yeah, I already have some of that gas,
I'm going to give 98% Argon, 2% CO2 a try, everybody sells it with Oxygen, but a called around, and another local place said they can do smaller tanks by hand, and add the 40 lbs, or whatever amount of CO2 to get the mixture.

First I'm going to order a 40 cf tank, instead of the little 20 cf tank I've been using, not to mention the $90.00 deposit and $5. rent I will avoid by buying a tank, lol.

I found a place on ebay that sells them for about 80 bux with free shipping.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=67058&item=3835604379&rd=1

I'm also told that 308 with some higher silicone content might make for some smoother and better welds....

Is ArcAlloy a main name brand? any good known name brands to trust quality? I was thinking of trying a 2lbs spool of something first.
Example:
Arcaloy ER308LSi in a .023 2 lbs spool.

Thanks for the insight!

Don

[DDA52]

Don
I'm looking into some 98/2 myself. As to the wire, I've heard of them but that's all. I looked high and low for 308L-Si, with no joy. I could find 33# spools, but nothing smaller. I settled for 308L. I wish I had some Si. My beads were a little rougher than I wanted, but since everything was to be ground smooth, it didn't matter.

On the cylinders... check with your local suppliers BEFORE you get it. I've heard plenty of horror stories where the suppliers wouldn't touch the cylinder because it wasn't theirs, even though it was new. See what they can do first before you possibly waste your money. If you are planning on doing lots of stainless, I'd get a bigger size. The 40cf will only give you a couple of hours of weld time. I have an 80 with the C-25. The cost wasn't bad, around 150 filled. I've been getting quotes on smaller for the specialty gasses. 20cf - $60 filled and 40cf - $90 filled. The 80 is a little less than twice the cost with double the weld time. Something to think about.

[cnslmva]

Teeps,

As for the ArcAlloy wire, you can't get a much bigger name. The company that makes that line is ESAB. They have been around for a long time and have aquired several well known companies along the line. I wouldn't hesitate to use any of their products!

[Teeps]

Thanks for the warning...
Luckily they took my new 20 cf tank and swapped it, the 40 cf they will take too, but in this instance he's going to fill my tank.

Actually the prices he gave me were SUPER CHEAP for 98/2 AR/CO2, If I understood him correctly, $20.00 for the gas!!!!
My C-25 , 20 cf tank was only $16.00 swapped out!!!!
I couple hours for this one job will probably be fine, and I will refill it for long term, (just a DIY'r right now).

Thanks cnslmva, I'm clueless on the brand names.

I'm going to try and hunt down a small spool of this stuff.

I'll let you know if I find any sources.

Thanks,

Don

[Teeps]

https://b2b.airgas.com/customer_service/site_locator.aspx

I called a local Airgas branch, they use a supplier called Crown, which I guess is also local to them, and they say is pretty good mig wire supplier.
They can get this stuff by the next day (from another branch) well Monday now, but....
2lb spools are 22 bux.

I guess if I like the stuff, I could buy larger spools later, and wind up what I need on a 2lb'er, might be more economical that way.

[DDA52]

Good price on the wire. I had to pay about 48 bucks for a 2# 308L @ .030. I found only one place in the area that had it in .030 in two lbs. Everybody was out. Typical. I'm having trouble finding 98/2 also. Sure, if I want to wait up to 14 days, I can get any mixture I want. San Antonio wants to be a big town, but they ain't. I run into this kind of thing all the time here. Nobody has anything nor are they able to get anything quickly.

[dyn88]

if you are looking for perfection than you would want to use 309 wire. 309 is compatible with a wider array of 300 series stainlesses and it seems you have done your reading and know what type of gas you are supposed to use. If you can stick a magnet to the pipe than its either 400 series or (most likely) just low grade stainless. Realistically you could get away with weling it with just 70 wire and stargon or c25 and still end up with a sturdy weld. This advise goes against eveything I wish to instill in every novice, But when the dollar screams when you try to squeze it some times you have to silence it. However it does seem that you o have access to quality literature and are able to discover for yourself.

[Teeps]

Well I have alot to learn, I really appreciate all the advice.
I'm really after the "perfect" or "best" method.
Not only that, but until I become a better welder, I don't need any other factors making things more difficult, LOL.

I also realize, I maybe don't have the perfect equipment, based on what I'm reading a Pulse welder would make me look like a professional, professional what I'm not sure though, hahaha. But $3k+ for a diy'er is hard to justify.

Atleast this 135amp welder seems powerful enough for this job, but I'm sure I will want a 220 volt welder some day as well.

I bought this tubing from a seller on ebay, and I really don't know what kind of tubing it is, as far as exact type of stainless steel.


Most of what I'm picking up, I'm reading on the net or a couple different message boards, Someone said that 308L wire is compatible with most stainless steels, so I thought that should cover me.

I guess now I really need to look closer at what type of metal I really have, and wether 309 would be better.

I'll try the magnet trick. I'm going to send a note to Vertex Industries, since I got the stuff from them.

http://stores.ebay.com/VertexNow_W0QQsspagenameZl2QQtZkm

Thanks alot for all the help guys, this is really a great resource.
I'd really be screwing up some tubing if it weren't for you guys.

Thanks,

Don